Trunking

Status
Not open for further replies.

BFDExplorer

Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Location
Kern County, CA
I have a PRO-95 handheld scanner. It has a trunking capability, but after going through the manual i still cant figure out exatly what it is or what it does. I already have the fire/ems/etc. programmed regular what's the difference between regular and trunking...any help is appreciated..thanks.
 

tazman3851

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
TRUNKED REPEATER OPERATION:
In the older radio systems, one or more groups of users were assigned to a particular pair of frequencies. If no one in any of those groups were talking, the frequency (or frequency pair) stood idle. At the same time, the groups of users on a different assigned frequency pair may be so busy that each of the groups is constantly waiting for someone to get through talking so they can get a message through. Thus there was a lot of available airtime wasted.
As the number of user groups increased in large metropolitan areas, all available frequencies were assigned to existing user groups (King County being a prime example). As new groups (such as new police departments or additional precincts in an existing police department) were created, no frequencies were available without sharing with an existing user.
A solution, known as trunking was borrowed from the telephone industry. With this technology, several frequency pairs are grouped together and put under the control of a computer (called a Trunking Controller). This computer then accepts each request to talk, assigns the next available frequency pair, directs all the radios in the talk group to switch to the assigned frequency pair, and sends a permit to talk tone to the requesting party. The whole process takes less than half a second. The computer also monitors the activity (not the conversation, but the fact the frequency pair is in use). When the frequency pair becomes idle, it is returned to the pool and is available for re-assignment to another user group. By pooling several frequencies, we also pool the unused airtime thus allowing more user-groups to work independently. In this manner we can get 3 to 10 times more use from a given set of frequencies than the old non-trunking method of assigning frequencies to users. A trunked repeater system can be either single site or simulcast.
A simple analogy to trunking is the system used to serve in-person customers at a bank. Formerly, customers got in line at individual teller windows to wait for the teller at that window to assist them. All of us have experienced getting in what appears to be the shortest line, when in fact, the transactions in front of us end up taking longer than anticipated, resulting in a longer wait for service than other lines might have offered. Also, you may have experience waiting in an assigned line for your type of transaction, even if another window has no waiting customers. Now, many banks have customers form a single queue, and the next available teller waits on the customer at the front of the line.
Rather than being stuck with a specific teller line (frequency), the trunking system will accept a request to talk and assign whatever frequency is available to the next request in line. When all frequencies are assigned, the system will put all requests in a waiting queue, and is able to prioritize customers in the line. The next available channel will be assigned to requests with the highest priority. Requests with equal priority will be served on a first-come, first-served basis. Typically, no users should experience any wait except in the event of a major disaster when radio traffic would be unusually high.
Thus, rather than scanning frequencies, you will be scanning talk groups.

From:
http://www.northwestradio.com/interceptnw/101.htm
 

BFDExplorer

Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Location
Kern County, CA
Are there "Special" frequencies that only work for trunking or can u use any frequency? Im really interested in learning how to trunk but not sure where to start. Again Thanks for any help.
 

BFDExplorer

Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Location
Kern County, CA
mciupa said:
You are in Kern County, I suppose. Are you trying to trunktrack Edwards
AFB ? This may be tricky if you haven't programmed a UHF system before.

I have no clue what I want to trunk, i suppose anything...i just want to figure out how to use the darn thing..haha.. Ya im in Kern County...the AFB would be neat to pickup on my scanner though.
 

BFDExplorer

Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Location
Kern County, CA
DEC HEX Description
176 00b Ground Ops
4688 125 Fuels
5616 15f Hospital Primary
5744 167 Flight Surgeon Primary
12816 321 Police Primary
13616 353 Fire Primary
13648 355 Fire Tactical 1
13680 357 Fire Tactical 2

are these the ones that are to be trunked...the other ones up at the top of the page are regular freqencies, correct?
 

Admin0140434

Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2004
Messages
553
Reaction score
0
Location
Anne Arundel County, MD
BFDExplorer said:
DEC HEX Description
176 00b Ground Ops
4688 125 Fuels
5616 15f Hospital Primary
5744 167 Flight Surgeon Primary
12816 321 Police Primary
13616 353 Fire Primary
13648 355 Fire Tactical 1
13680 357 Fire Tactical 2

are these the ones that are to be trunked...the other ones up at the top of the page are regular freqencies, correct?

ok... forget the HEX column... it will just confuse you...

the numbers under DEC are the talkgroups for the system... the frequencies at the top of the page are the system frequencies... you must have these programed in the scanner in order to monitor the system...
 

W4KRR

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 1, 2001
Messages
3,723
Reaction score
305
Location
Coconut Creek
BFDExplorer said:
mciupa said:
You are in Kern County, I suppose. Are you trying to trunktrack Edwards
AFB ? This may be tricky if you haven't programmed a UHF system before.

I have no clue what I want to trunk, i suppose anything...i just want to figure out how to use the darn thing..haha.. Ya im in Kern County...the AFB would be neat to pickup on my scanner though.

You use the trunked feature on your scanner to monitor trunked radio systems. If a frequency isn't part of a trunked system, you can't "trunk" it, you would just monitor it conventionally.
 

Al42

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2005
Messages
3,457
Reaction score
0
Location
Long Island, NY, USA
The trunked systems in Kern County that you can receive are:
California Correctional Institution-Tehachapi
Edwards Air Force Base
North Kern State Prison-Delano
and
Southern California Edison

Look at http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=RR&ctid=197, pick a system and:
If the frequencies (the 800.xxx stuff) are in grey, program them all into a bank. If there are any in red, or in red and blue, program just those, you don't need the rest - the 95 will track Motorola with the control channels only.

Now program in the talkgroups you want to listen to (or run the bank in "Open" mode to hear them all).

It'll be much easier to program the scanner if you get Don Starr's Win95 program (it's free) at http://www.starrsoft.com/freeware/win95/apps/Win95.zip. You'll need a cable too - information at http://www.starrsoft.com/freeware/win95/default.asp, 6th line down.

There may be other systems you can receive in nearby counties. Look in http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=RR&stid=6 and pick a county.
 

BFDExplorer

Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Location
Kern County, CA
This helped a lot thanks. Just a few more questions.

Since im trying to get the Edwards AFB I would only need the base frequencies 407.5625 409.5625 & 410.7625 ? I program those regulary then go into the trunking option to configure it. As im going through the manual it says

"You can program the scanner to receive transmittions in the UHF-Lo band (406-512 MHz) of the Motorola trunking system. You can receive these transmissions by checking the trunking system's control channel. You must program the system's base frequency to do this."

"If you try to program an offset frequency in the UHF-Hi bands (806-960 MHz), the scanner ignores the entry."

Does this mean I need to program the above control frequencies (407.5625, 409.5625, 410.7625) because they are within the 406-512 MHz range (low band)?

One of the steps in doing this says "...If necessary, press the desired Base Frequencywith the number keys and press ENTER." Do i enter one of the control frequencies listed above in this or leave it how it is set default already (406.0000)?

After that step it says "...If necessary enter the offset numberand press ENTER." The current default Offset is 380. Does this need to be changed?

And the final step being "...select the step number, 25.0, 50.0, or 12.5 KHz, then press ENTER." Does this need to be changed the default is set to 25.0KHz


Im sorry for such a lengthy post and so many questions. I feel i almost have a grasp on this whole trunking thing, just these last few questions should get me going. As usual everything is Greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 

mciupa

Canadian DB Admin
Moderator
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
9,092
Reaction score
2,680
Location
I'm here a lot
BFDExplorer said:
Does this mean I need to program the above control frequencies (407.5625, 409.5625, 410.7625) because they are within the 406-512 MHz range (low band)?

Let's just start with Site-2 Main Base.

BFDExplorer said:
Do I enter one of the control frequencies listed above in this or leave it how it is set default already (406.0000)?

Change the UHF trunking base freq. to 406.1625
BFDExplorer said:
After that step it says "...If necessary enter the offset number and press ENTER." The current default Offset is 380. Does this need to be changed?

No, leave as is.

BFDExplorer said:
And the final step being "...select the step number, 25.0, 50.0, or 12.5 KHz, then press ENTER." Does this need to be changed the default is set to 25.0KHz

This must be changed to 12.5

Now enter the freq. for Site 2 Main Base

  • 407.2000 407.3625 407.8375 408.0000 409.0000 409.1625 409.4250 409.5375 409.5625*

press SEARCH and you should be in business. Once you get the hang of it, you can try the other two sites (in different banks) as well.

Let us know how it goes.
 

BFDExplorer

Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Location
Kern County, CA
Ok great. Thank You!

Do i need to enter these talkgroup id's or will it work without them...what do these do?

DEC Description
176 Ground Ops
4688 Fuels
5616 Hospital Primary
5744 Flight Surgeon Primary
12816 Police Primary
13616 Fire Primary
13648 Fire Tactical 1
13680 Fire Tactical 2
 

Al42

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2005
Messages
3,457
Reaction score
0
Location
Long Island, NY, USA
BFDExplorer said:
Do i need to enter these talkgroup id's or will it work without them...what do these do?
If you want to hear all the transmissions on the system you don't need to enter talkgroups. If you only want to hear certain services, put in those talk groups and press Func-5 for that bank. The "+" in the display will turn to a "-" and you'll only hear those groups you put in. Func-5 toggles back and forth between hearing everything (Open) and only hearing programmed talkgroups (Closed).
 

mciupa

Canadian DB Admin
Moderator
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
9,092
Reaction score
2,680
Location
I'm here a lot
BFDExplorer said:
Do i need to enter these talkgroup id's or will it work without them...what do these do?

DEC Description
176 Ground Ops
4688 Fuels
5616 Hospital Primary
5744 Flight Surgeon Primary
12816 Police Primary
13616 Fire Primary
13648 Fire Tactical 1
13680 Fire Tactical 2

You can enter them into Scan Lists when listening in closed (Scanning) mode and hear only those groups.

To hear all talkgroups available on the system listen in open (Search) mode.
Those numbers are group identifiers . If your radio has alpha -tags ,
then you can name the groups, rather than look at those numbers.
 

BFDExplorer

Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Location
Kern County, CA
Not hearing any action yet...i programed all the frequencies for the Main base and changed the settings that u told me to..is that all i have to do.?

What range do these handheld scanners usually have anyways...could I be out of range?
 

mciupa

Canadian DB Admin
Moderator
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
9,092
Reaction score
2,680
Location
I'm here a lot
BFDExplorer said:
Not hearing any action yet...i programed all the frequencies for the Main base and changed the settings that u told me to..is that all i have to do.?

What range do these handheld scanners usually have anyways...could I be out of range?

You must be receiving the control channel, or else it will not
trunktrack. Hopefully you can snag one of the three sites CC's.
 

BFDExplorer

Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Location
Kern County, CA
I entered all of them including the control channel (409.5625) all in one group. It says MOT:None, should there be something there?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top