TRX Impossible to Program both DMR & NXDN On a Conventional Channel

[woodpecker]

I would like to have some conventional channels programmed to receive both NXDN and DMR on the same frequency, it seems impossible without duplicating the channel though, these mode combinations appear pointless and do nothing on a conventional channel:-

Mode = Auto / Digital Mode = Digital - Receives neither DMR or NXDN
Mode = FM / Digital Mode = Digital - Receives neither DMR or NXDN
Mode = NFM / Digital Mode = Digital - Receives neither DMR or NXDN

 

[TAbirdman]

Did you try setting the color, slot, ran, etc to any?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

 

[woodpecker]

Did you try setting the color, slot, ran, etc to any?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

There is no option for setting those squelch modes if the mode is Auto, FM or NFM, you have to select DMR or NXDN to get at CC, RAN etc, nothing will seem to do both digital modes on the same channel.

 

[RaleighGuy]

I would like to have some conventional channels programmed to receive both NXDN and DMR on the same frequency, it seems impossible without duplicating the channel though, these mode combinations appear pointless and do nothing on a conventional channel:-

Mode = Auto / Digital Mode = Digital - Receives neither DMR or NXDN
Mode = FM / Digital Mode = Digital - Receives neither DMR or NXDN
Mode = NFM / Digital Mode = Digital - Receives neither DMR or NXDN

Can you program the same frequency twice, once as NXDN and once as DMR?

 

[troymail]

Can you program the same frequency twice, once as NXDN and once as DMR?

Yes - this is exactly what I do.

 

[woodpecker]

Can you program the same frequency twice, once as NXDN and once as DMR?

No, becuase with 2500 channels it already takes minutes to load up and I don't want to double up to 5000 plus channels.

I did say in the original post, it seems impossible without duplicating the channel.

 

[troymail]

No, becuase with 2500 channels it already takes minutes to load up and I don't want to double up to 5000 plus channels.

I did say in the original post, it seems impossible without duplicating the channel.

That doesn't make it "impossible"

 

[woodpecker]

That doesn't make it "impossible"

How is not impossible?

Please share how to program BOTH NXDN and DMR on a conventional channel then?

 

[troymail]

How is not impossible?

Please share how to program BOTH NXDN and DMR on a conventional channel then?

My response was based on the thread title, this question and your response:

Can you program the same frequency twice, once as NXDN and once as DMR?

No, becuase with 2500 channels it already takes minutes to load up and I don't want to double up to 5000 plus channels.

As I said in my post - that doesn't make it impossible.

 

[woodpecker]

My response was based on the thread title, this question and your response:
As I said in my post - that doesn't make it impossible.

Guess you didn't understand the title then?

Its impossible AFAIK to program both modes on a convention channel, obviously it can be programmed on 2 channels but that wasn't in question!

 

[troymail]

I suppose that could be true - but then again, based on the responses, it appears I'm not the only one.

 

[sibbley]

Mixed mode conventional channels! Now that's an idea. Submit that to Whistler woodpecker.

 

[Ubbe]

There's also no way to have conventional and DMR on the same channel and automaticly switch between them. That is strange as search, and probably sweeper, can do that.

I would like a normal conventional channel programmed as auto to open up as conventional and if there is a digital transmission it should mute and start to decode in digital mode, either DMR or NXDN as I have channels with an analog/digital mixed mode.

I suggested this in october to Whistler but I guess they have other more important things to fix before they can look at requests.

/Ubbe

 

[mciupa]

Submit that to Whistler woodpecker.

I thought her name is Wendy? :lol:

 

[SOFA_KING]

Mixed mode conventional channels! Now that's an idea. Submit that to Whistler woodpecker.

Been there...Done that. Whistler ain't listening!

I programmed all the ham band channels for quad mode by entering each frequency FOUR times. I used excel to automate the process and imported the spreadsheet in CSV form or it would have taken forever. But the real downside is that it takes FOUR times longer to scan all the channels. Not good!

So why doesn't Whistler do for conventional channels what they did for search...allowing multiple modes? We know it would work, so why not JUST DO IT?

Phil

 

[troymail]

Just a wild guess but the subject of "auto" functionality tends to negatively impact on performance and Whistler doesn't want to implement something that will just cause people to then complain about that performance.

Any "auto" function essentially requires the radio to "try this then that then that", etc and all of these things take processing time.

Using "auto" in search modes makes sense in that you're looking for new things and once those new things are learned/found, they can be programmed as they were found in a discovery or search mode like search. That same "auto" mode doesn't necessarily make sense in "scan" mode.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[DonS]

I programmed all the ham band channels for quad mode by entering each frequency FOUR times.

Why four times?
* Analog + P25
* DMR
* NXDN
= 3 times

 

[jonwienke]

Just a wild guess but the subject of "auto" functionality tends to negatively impact on performance and Whistler doesn't want to implement something that will just cause people to then complain about that performance.

Any "auto" function essentially requires the radio to "try this then that then that", etc and all of these things take processing time.

This is not true. Uniden scanners scan channels in "auto" (AKA Audio Option "Search") mode just fine. The trick is to check to see if there is a carrier before trying to decode possible digital data. If there is no carrier, then you don't need to bother attempting DMR, P25, or any other flavor of digital decode.

The first version of the DMR-capable firmware attempted digital decode before checking for a carrier, and the result was a very slow scan--about 1/4 the speed of analog FM channels. The firmware has subsequently been fixed so that carrier detect is done first, and now DMR, conventional analog channels, and channels programmed to play any digital or analog traffic scan at pretty much the same speed--about 80 channels per second. The only time the scanner uses any processing time figuring out what flavor of digital is in use is when a channel is active and the scanner is stopping scan anyway. The few milliseconds required to detect the flavor of digital are not perceptible.

 

[DonS]

The few milliseconds required to detect the flavor of digital are not perceptible.

Depends on your definitions of "few" and "perceptible".

In order to detect any supported digital mode in an "auto" mode, the scanner has to wait for the maximum detection time - likely based on something like a frame sync. For something like DMR, that's going to be on the order of 330ms (worst case), plus sample window times. And that's presuming the scanner can try to detect all supported modes simultaneously.

To me, 330ms isn't "a few", and I'm pretty sure I can perceive a 330ms delay in unmuting audio if it's really analog.

 

[jonwienke]

Actually, you don't need multiple timeslots' worth of data to determine that you have a digital transmission. All you need to do is to verify is that the frequency deviation is constrained to 4 or however many discrete states, as opposed to analog. That can be done in far less than 300ms.

And digital modes have a baseline latency of 300-500ms anyway, even under ideal conditions with actual subscriber radios (not scanners). Given that the decode delay only applies to active channels, it's really not an issue. Inactive channels scan quickly even if they are set to auto, and latency for digital channels is within the normal 300-500ms range.

If Uniden can make digital and analog audio perceptually indistinguishable between "auto" channels and channels where analog or digital are specified, than it can be done. It is being done.