Trying to listen to ski patrol at Squaw Valley

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docskibum

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Up until 2 years ago I could just tune into the 463.32500 freq and listen away. Then they upgraded and I can no longer listen. So I bought a new radio that is digital and trunkating. This did not allow me to listen. This is the info on this site . Squaw Valley recently added this MotoTRBO Capacity Plus trunking system. With sites located at both Squaw Valley High Camp and Ward Peak, the system may be shared between both Squaw and Alpine Meadows. SO how do I listen? Do I need a code. Is there a way find it out? Can I Make friends with someone and get the codes? Thanks
Barry
 

com501

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Good luck. Trbo requires a Motorola MotoTrbo radio programmed on their system with the correct trunking information. Squaw is running syswatch so if your ID doesn't match an authorized radio on the system, bye bye. It's also going to have RAS before the ski season starts, which will pretty much lock everything out. PS - syswatch will kill BOTH radios if a duplicate ID pops up simultaneously with another radio when they register on the system.

You could just join the ski patrol..... ;)
 

docskibum

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I already went that route, at this time it does not work. The local fire departments ( squaw valley, north tahoe and truckee), and careflight have access. California highway patrol and placer county sheriff I believe also have access. Is there another way since they have access. Thoughts? Thanks again :)
 

medic52

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So whats your reason for wanting to listen in? If its legitimate, then go ask the powers the patrol, or one of the emergency services.

From your user name it implies you may be a doctor? In which case I would guess you are trying to get prepared for the patients coming in your direction?
 

KD2DLL

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I already went that route, at this time it does not work. The local fire departments ( squaw valley, north tahoe and truckee), and careflight have access. California highway patrol and placer county sheriff I believe also have access. Is there another way since they have access. Thoughts? Thanks again :)

My guess is that they simplify have radios capable of the system and they have them set up so that the system recognizes the radio as if it was one of theirs.
 

inigo88

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Up until 2 years ago I could just tune into the 463.32500 freq and listen away. Then they upgraded and I can no longer listen. So I bought a new radio that is digital and trunkating. This did not allow me to listen. This is the info on this site . Squaw Valley recently added this MotoTRBO Capacity Plus trunking system. With sites located at both Squaw Valley High Camp and Ward Peak, the system may be shared between both Squaw and Alpine Meadows. SO how do I listen? Do I need a code. Is there a way find it out? Can I Make friends with someone and get the codes? Thanks
Barry

You can monitor MotoTRBO Capacity Plus with two computer programs, called "DSD" and "DMRDecode." DSD decodes the digital voice packets into audio and plays it out your computer speakers. DMRDecode shows analytical system information about which talkgroups and radio IDs are in use on which frequencies (LCN numbers), similar to Unitrunker. The exception is of course, if Squaw Valley chose to utilize encryption on their system. If that's the case then we are all S.O.L.

If you can monitor Squaw Valley from home, I would suggest going this route. However it takes a bit of time to set up and requires a discriminator-tapped scanner. If you are interested start by checking out the threads about DSD and DMRDecode in the "Digital Signals Decoding Software" RR sub-forum. :)

Not a lot is known about this system yet, so if you could grab some DMRDecode logs or eventually start identifying talkgroups on the system, I can add it to the database!
 

com501

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Squaw Valley is running Enhanced Encryption with RAS. They purchased RAS at the beginning of the year for their system. Encryption will prevent DSD and DMRDecode. RAS will completely circumvent even a properly programmed two way radio, unless you have the correct and matching RAS key and a valid ID.

Really, you should just become an authorized user.
 

SCPD

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It would be interesting to hear why a ski area would need to encrypt their communications. I've lived next to a big one for 25 years and have monitored their radio system for all of that. I haven't heard anything that would need to remain confidential.
 

com501

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Because its free. And because it keeps people from listening and protects their business operations.

Oh, and because they can.

Every radio system I install, I encrypt if it has the capability.
 

KD2DLL

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It would be interesting to hear why a ski area would need to encrypt their communications. I've lived next to a big one for 25 years and have monitored their radio system for all of that. I haven't heard anything that would need to remain confidential.

I work at a small ski area and we use basic scrambling on one of our channels. The only channel that is scrambled is our ski patrol frequency because we want to keep injuries information from being easily accessible to the public. Our main mountain operations channel is in the clear though.
 

SCPD

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Because its free. And because it keeps people from listening and protects their business operations.

Oh, and because they can.

Every radio system I install, I encrypt if it has the capability.

Most EMS agencies don't encrypt their medic to hospital communications and they include extensive real time reports. For injuries at a ski area the patient reports are limited as the ski patroller has far fewer options to treat the injuries. Most ski areas I've monitored report the nature of the injury (chief complaint), mental orientation, if O2 is being administered and in some cases plus and blood pressure. This is done so that dispatch can prioritize calls, medic units can decide if they need to respond code 3 and if they need additional help from the fire department. If EMS agencies are not encrypting and are not legally required to do so by the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) why do ski areas think they need to encrypt?

I can’t think of anything a ski area communicates over a radio where they need “to protect their business operations.” The nature of the ski industry requires sharing of information relative to lift operation and maintenance, slope maintenance, patrol operations and avalanche mitigation.

Currently there are 8 manufacturers of ski lifts in the world, 4 of which are located in the western hemisphere. The maintenance procedures are well known and published for each of them. The manufacturing, installation and maintenance procedures for them are regulated by a host of agencies and industry groups, largely in part, because of civil suits.

Patrol operations are pretty straightforward. The amount of money and effort ski areas put into their ski patrols varies some. Some are more professional than others, with an overall level of training and experience higher than others. Some rely on volunteers more and some on paid staff. Some have ski patrol personnel that work year round and others only have season part time employees. Skiing sports magazines have annual reader surveys of ski areas with criteria for rating ski areas. The ski areas that make a large effort running their ski patrols always rank high. The same is true of grooming. Grooming techniques are fairly straightforward, what varies is how much time and how many people are working on it. The ski areas that invest in high quality machines and employ a large grooming force consistently rank high in the magazines. The number of grooming machines and snow cats on the market is limited to just a few worldwide.

Avalanche mitigation uses the same techniques no matter what ski area is involved. Some adaptation for unique terrain may exist, but the methods of placing and detonating explosives drawn from to make those adaptations are common. Explosive products are commonly available. Following detonation ski cutting turns and jumping are standard and well known techniques that have been around since ski areas have existed. Ski patrol members and outdoor operations supervisors and managers, at some point, are required to attend the National Avalanche School for basic training. Continuing and more specialized training is necessary and given by various consultants and schools available to everyone. The technology, methodology and science are widely shared. The ski area I live next to hosts international groups who travel to the U.S. to see “how we do it.” U.S. ski managers travel to Europe as the Swiss are particularly knowledgeable.

It is common for people, especially those in the early parts of their career, to work for more than one, sometimes several, ski areas. In doing so the nature of the business is widely shared. Exchanges of personnel and industry seminars are frequent so that knowledge is widely shared. Ski areas often conduct joint training for not only avalanche mitigation, but for rescue, EMS and lift maintenance techniques. National ski patrol associations provide common practices, qualifications and training requirements. Training and qualifications for ski instructors is standardized in a highly detailed system governed by the PSIA (Professional Ski Instructors Association of America) and the AASI (American Association of Snowboard Instructors). Training for regions of the country is held at different ski areas annually for the purpose of sharing the knowledge of how different ski areas operate. There is a professional journal for ski area managers called “Ski Area Management.” My wife has volunteered for a group called the “International Ski History Association” that publishes a magazine called “Skiing Heritage.” I read some of it on occasion. It contains the evolution of everything in the development of the ski industry worldwide. Some of this is done to help individual ski areas address lawsuits, as the ski industry has more than its share of liability exposure. Lord knows that ski areas are sued as often as their CEO’s get a cup of coffee.

When I’ve skied at downhill areas in the western U.S., I enjoyed taking a handheld with me. Although I don’t do so anymore when I’m near a ski area I still enjoy listening to how different areas go about their tasks. When I was on the hill I could hear reports as to lift breakdowns, line length, snow conditions, run crowding, etc. My wife and I would divert to different chairs and runs as a result of what we heard. It was fun to be one of the first to ride a lift that had been broken down for an extended period of time and have runs all to ourselves. We were helping the ski areas by staying away from trouble areas. As interesting as I find listening to ski areas I can say very few people do so. The information transmitted on their radio systems are heard by very few people.

Accident reports and statistics are part of a special use permit file of the U.S. Forest Service and a majority of ski areas in the west are on National Forest land. These items are public information, with names redacted on any specific report copies given to those that request them, with the exception of those gathered for court proceedings. The federal government through the Forest Service incurs its share of civil liability in issuing and administering these special use permits and regulates all the outdoor operations of a ski area.

My observations of ski area operations are based on the following. I live 2 miles from a major ski area that can have as many as 20,000 skiers per day on the mountain. This ski area is located on and administered by the same ranger district I worked on for 10 years. I worked closely with a friend and coworker who administered the downhill ski area permit, one of the most complex in the country. I was a avalanche "gun" loader trainee when I retired. I have a lot of acquaintances on the ski patrol. I administered a cross country ski area permit adjacent to the downhill area that shared some avalanche hazards. I attended the National Avalanche School in the 80's to be able to assess conditions in the backcountry, address problems with private land being at the bottom of an avalanche chute located on National Forest land and to administer a helicopter ski permit. During half my years of downhill skiing (1973-1996) I had handheld scanners or a King radio with me when I stepped into ski bindings. I bring up my background for one reason only, to point out that I have more knowledge of how ski areas operate than the average individual.

I can’t readily think of an industry that is as open as downhill skiing. The statement “protecting their business operations” is vague and without merit in my view. I welcome someone more familiar with the ski industry to explain this further.
 

WayneH

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The encryption debate will now end and any future posts deleted. Discuss the radio system in the topic or please move the conversation to the Rants forum.
 
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