Trying to understand my city's database

[Shunopoli]

I am looking at getting a scanner to monitor my local pd,fd and so forth. I currently reside in San Antonio Texas. I have used the search function a lot and just can't seem to find my answer.

1.) I am debating on getting the uniden bcd436hp or the sds100. In my city do I really need the ability of simulcast? That is only benifit I see with the sds100(other than the color display). Should I just future proof and get the sds100 just in case I go into a simulcast area?
2.) Looking over the database it states that my city is EDACS Networked Standard w/ESK. The confusion I have is that in my research ESK means encrypted, but looking at the mode section of the frequencies it shows FMM or FM and nothing with "e" or "E".
3.) I also know that we are currently on Project 25 Phase I with the going to Project 25 Phase II in August 2021 give a take or few. I know both of these scanners can decode this, but do we know once we go to phase 2 if it will be encrypted.
4.) I also I know I will need the provoice upgrade for both of these scanners, but do I need DMR/NXDN specially if I travel outside San Antonio.

Please forgive my ignorance as I am still learning .

 

[hiegtx]

I am looking at getting a scanner to monitor my local pd,fd and so forth. I currently reside in San Antonio Texas. I have used the search function a lot and just can't seem to find my answer.

Hi Shunopoli
Welcome to RadioReference & the Texas Forum.

Let's try to answer some of your questions.

1.) I am debating on getting the uniden bcd436hp or the sds100. In my city do I really need the ability of simulcast? That is only benifit I see with the sds100(other than the color display). Should I just future proof and get the sds100 just in case I go into a simulcast area?

The current EDACS/ProVoice system has a couple of simulcast sites.

While Simulcast is not usually a huge issue with EDACS systems, it definitely can be with P25 systems.

2.) Looking over the database it states that my city is EDACS Networked Standard w/ESK. The confusion I have is that in my research ESK means encrypted, but looking at the mode section of the frequencies it shows FMM or FM and nothing with "e" or "E".

The ESK does not specfiically mean Encrypted. It refers to the way the system handles calls from field units, with a code that can be assigned which will prevent unauthorized radios from being able to use the system. Either scanner you list, the BCD436HP or the SDS100, can handle a system using ESK. For more on ESK, see this Wiki page:

ESK - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

3.) I also know that we are currently on Project 25 Phase I with the going to Project 25 Phase II in August 2021 give a take or few. I know both of these scanners can decode this, but do we know once we go to phase 2 if it will be encrypted.

Looking at the SAUA Overlay system, the current sites are not tagged as Simulcast. However, I strongly suspect that may change when & if San Antonio & Bexar County fully move to that system. For that reason alone, I would lean towards theSDS100 as opposed to the 436HP.

As to whether or not a large number of the talkgroups will be encrypted, I have no idea of knowing. I suspect that some will, but hopefully not everything. If one of the San Antonio area members has more information, they might provide a better answer. Looking at the current EDACS system, there are some that are encrypted, but by no means are these in the majority. The ones that are will be labeled with a DE in the Mode column. Those with only a D are ProVoice, but not encrypted.

4.) I also I know I will need the provoice upgrade for both of these scanners, but do I need DMR/NXDN specially if I travel outside San Antonio.

The ProVoice upgrade, as you know, will be needed for the current system.

As for the DMR or NXDN upgrades, you can add those at any time later on. They can be purchased directly from Uniden for much less than a dealer would charge you if you purchased them along with the scanner. There are few DMR or NXDN public safety systems in Texas, but in some other states, a number of the smaller cities are using one of these system types. In the DFW area, I have two NXDN public safety systems, covering four smaller cities in southern Dallas County. Highland Park currently uses a DMR system, but will be joining the GMRS P25 system; their neighboring town, University Park, will also move with them.

Where DMR & NXDN is far more common is with businesses, along with schools, colleges, and hospitals. Whether any of these interest you or not will help determine if you need eother of those two upgrades. Also, many of the systems listed in the database as LTR, may well have actually converted to DMR, but no one, as yet, has documented & submitted the changes to the database. That's ben the case here in DFW, and I suspect elsewhere.

Please forgive my ignorance as I am still learning .

No apology is needed. All of us, at one time or another were new to this and have had questions.

If you have other questions, don't be afraid to ask.

 

[jason51]

The 436 with the provoice upgrade will work perfect for the San Antonio edacs system

 

[Shunopoli]

Hi Shunopoli
Welcome to RadioReference & the Texas Forum.

Let's try to answer some of your questions.


The current EDACS/ProVoice system has a couple of simulcast sites.
View attachment 95929
While Simulcast is not usually a huge issue with EDACS systems, it definitely can be with P25 systems.

The ESK does not specfiically mean Encrypted. It refers to the way the system handles calls from field units, with a code that can be assigned which will prevent unauthorized radios from being able to use the system. Either scanner you list, the BCD436HP or the SDS100, can handle a system using ESK. For more on ESK, see this Wiki page:

ESK - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Looking at the SAUA Overlay system, the current sites are not tagged as Simulcast. However, I strongly suspect that may change when & if San Antonio & Bexar County fully move to that system. For that reason alone, I would lean towards theSDS100 as opposed to the 436HP.

As to whether or not a large number of the talkgroups will be encrypted, I have no idea of knowing. I suspect that some will, but hopefully not everything. If one of the San Antonio area members has more information, they might provide a better answer. Looking at the current EDACS system, there are some that are encrypted, but by no means are these in the majority. The ones that are will be labeled with a DE in the Mode column. Those with only a D are ProVoice, but not encrypted.

The ProVoice upgrade, as you know, will be needed for the current system.

As for the DMR or NXDN upgrades, you can add those at any time later on. They can be purchased directly from Uniden for much less than a dealer would charge you if you purchased them along with the scanner. There are few DMR or NXDN public safety systems in Texas, but in some other states, a number of the smaller cities are using one of these system types. In the DFW area, I have two NXDN public safety systems, covering four smaller cities in southern Dallas County. Highland Park currently uses a DMR system, but will be joining the GMRS P25 system; their neighboring town, University Park, will also move with them.

Where DMR & NXDN is far more common is with businesses, along with schools, colleges, and hospitals. Whether any of these interest you or not will help determine if you need eother of those two upgrades. Also, many of the systems listed in the database as LTR, may well have actually converted to DMR, but no one, as yet, has documented & submitted the changes to the database. That's ben the case here in DFW, and I suspect elsewhere.

No apology is needed. All of us, at one time or another were new to this and have had questions.

If you have other questions, don't be afraid to ask.

Wow this response was amazing and explains a lot. Now is it worth buying sds100 for the two simulcast sites blue and gold? I don’t want to buy a 500 dollar radio and not get full potential in my area when Icould of spent the extra and future proof

 

[hiegtx]

Wow this response was amazing and explains a lot. Now is it worth buying sds100 for the two simulcast sites blue and gold? I don’t want to buy a 500 dollar radio and not get full potential in my area when Icould of spent the extra and future proof

For your current EDACS system, the 436HP, with the ProVoice upgrade, would be sufficient. I have not seen comments about simulcasting issues on EDCAS systems, even though you do have two simulcast sites (blue & gold). The unknown factor is how the upcoming new system will be built out. What's in the database right now for SAUA does not indicate simulcast sites. But as I stated, I strongly suspect that if the system goes into full operation, replacing the EDACS system completely, then one or more of the existing sites, or perhaps an additional one, will be simulcast. P25 systems in many of the major metro areas, not just in Texas, have at least one, if not more, simulcast sites. That's especially true of P25 Phase II systems.

I have no crystal ball as to what San Antonio plans, but my guess is based on what I've seen in a large number of other areas.

 

[Patch42]

Now is it worth buying sds100 for the two simulcast sites blue and gold?

There are two distinct uses of the term "simulcast". One refers to the same broadcast being echoed on multiple frequencies. This is not a concern as far as reception goes. The scanner will pick one of the frequencies and tune to it. No problem.

The other use refers to transmissions from multiple sites using the same frequencies. It's the same broadcast coming from different locations, but the difference in distance between your scanner and the various sites means the signals arrive at very slightly different times. For analog this isn't an issue because the signals arrive close enough together that the human ear can't distinguish them as separate. For digital, however, it's a very different story. The slight difference in arrival times can cause serious issues with decoding the digital signals. This is where the Software Defined Radio that's at the heart of the SDS100 can make a huge difference. The software can perform magic and separate the multiple signals, allowing just one of them to be decoded.

It appears the system currently in use in your area does not have the second type of simulcast. A quick look through the frequencies used in the "simulcast" shows no duplication of frequencies between the two sites. Either of the radios under consideration should work fine. However, since changes are planned for the future, they may switch to a system that uses the same frequencies at different sites, in which case the SDS100 would likely be the better choice.

 

[rattlerbb01]

Within the next few years, San Antonio and Bexar County will be on Phase II Simulcast and the EDACS will be phased out. The BCD436HP with PV Upgrade works great down here on everything but the analog Bexar Fire dispatches on the Gold Simulcast. When simulcast P25 P2 rolls out, you’ll want the SDS100