TVF&R Rebanding & Radio Replacement

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Baker845

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PMJ2kx is 50416 Ops 38? NORCOM Dispatches on 154.160, Woodburn FD/ Amb. and all North Marion county Fire depts. The freq is called North-1 . 154.385 is Central 1
 
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Baker845

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North-1 and Central-1 are good freqs to keep in scanner. Can you hear North-1 or Central-1 ?
 
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PMJ2kx

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I can usually start to pick up NORCOM somewhat just after passing the rest stop south of Wilsonville. on I-5 southbound / northbound. I haven't actually tried here from home, but I doubt I will get anything.

Nevertheless, I will try! I'll post around 9ish tonight and let you know.
 

Baker845

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ok. North-1 can be heard from the Clackamas area, hear them all time when im out that way.
 

PMJ2kx

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OPS38! Turn on your scanner! E52 is on a Mutual Aid call right now with Aurora. They're live! :D

EDIT 4:32 - Units are still broadcasting on Ops38 from Aurora, but NORCOM dispatch is no longer being broadcast.

It was a vehicle fire. C6 actually radioed E52 to ask them if they could hear NORCOM and the other units.
 
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Baker845

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The patch is working... Did you hear NORCOM ?? And are units from Aurora FD they using North-1? I think Aurora Fire uses North-1 as Ops but not sure.
 
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PMJ2kx

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The patch is working... Did you hear NORCOM ?? And are units from Aurora FD they using North-1? I think Aurora Fire uses North-1 as Ops but not sure.
Yeah, I heard NORCOM and Aurora units both, until E52 canceled. Then I only heard Aurora's units talking. I'm pretty sure Aurora uses North 1.

-------

Heads up for those interested: TGID 59152 used by 800 & Station 8 (Cornelius) during a 2nd Alarm Brush fire in Cherry Grove (west of Gaston and just south of Hagg Lake). The nature of the call was personal; I believe they said the channel name was P11 or B11 (couldn't tell).

So, new TGID for Washington County fire units.

TGID: 59152
Name: P/B 11
Used by Cornelius Fire.
 

Baker845

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Thank you PMJ2kx for info. I be heading up that way next weekend, and will give TG listen. Do you know who is 800 ?
 
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DonS

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Most scanners do not use the exact freqs. to follow trunked conversations. They use the FCC Channel numbers that are sent over the control channel.
Scanners don't use "FCC" channel numbers. In 3600 bps Motorola systems (e.g. SmartZone, SmartNet), the control channel (CC) messages include Motorola-specific channel numbers that identify voice channel (VC) frequencies. In VHF and UHF ("OBT") systems, you have to program a "base, offset, and step" for every system (though there are some default values, like 406.000/380/25.000 for UHF). In 800 MHz systems, there is a "standard" table of channel number -> frequency mappings - mappings that have nothing to do with any FCC channel-numbering scheme.
They are 1-120 in the 851-854MHz band. 1=851.0125, 2=851.0375, 3=851.0625, etc. 120=853.9875. The spacing is .0250.
In the "standard" 800 MHz Motorola mapping, channel 0 is 851.0125, channel 1 is 851.0375, ..., channel 719 is 868.9875. Above channel 719, things "change" a little.
If the control channel tells your scanner to tune to channel 3 (now 851.0625), the freq. on channel 3 has been changed to 851.0375
No. Motorola's channel 3 is still 851.0875. What Motorola did was change their channels 440 through 559 - instead of their old range of [862.0125 .. 864.9875] (on 25kHz steps), those channels are now [851.0250 .. 854.0000] (still on 25kHz steps).

Scanners need to "know" that channels 440-559 are now moved down to these new frequency assignments. In the GRE-made PRO-96/2096 and PSR-500/600, this is done by creating a "table" that contains that mapping information:
Code:
ChLO  ChHI   Step   Offset      Base
 440   559  25.000    440     851.025000
 000   719  25.000      0     851.012500
 720   759  25.000      0     848.000000
 815   831  25.000      0     846.625000
 958   958  25.000    958     868.975000
 961  1022  25.000      0     843.400000
All but the first line are the "standard" 800 MHz table entries. The new line at the top (channels 440-559) tells the scanner the math to use for that "remapped" range of channels: VCfreq = (channel - Offset) x Step + Base

At present, the aforementioned PRO-96/2096 and PSR-500/600 are the only scanners that allow you to enter this information; they're the only scanners that will follow a "rebanded" system that has had any of its VC frequencies "moved" to the new 440-559 channel mappings.
 

DickH

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Scanners don't use "FCC" channel numbers. In 3600 bps Motorola systems (e.g. SmartZone, SmartNet), the control channel (CC) messages include Motorola-specific channel numbers that identify voice channel (VC) frequencies. In VHF and UHF ("OBT") systems, you have to program a "base, offset, and step" for every system (though there are some default values, like 406.000/380/25.000 for UHF). In 800 MHz systems, there is a "standard" table of channel number -> frequency mappings - mappings that have nothing to do with any FCC channel-numbering scheme.

In the "standard" 800 MHz Motorola mapping, channel 0 is 851.0125, channel 1 is 851.0375, ..., channel 719 is 868.9875. Above channel 719, things "change" a little.

No. Motorola's channel 3 is still 851.0875. What Motorola did was change their channels 440 through 559 - instead of their old range of [862.0125 .. 864.9875] (on 25kHz steps), those channels are now [851.0250 .. 854.0000] (still on 25kHz steps).

Scanners need to "know" that channels 440-559 are now moved down to these new frequency assignments. In the GRE-made PRO-96/2096 and PSR-500/600, this is done by creating a "table" that contains that mapping information:
Code:
ChLO  ChHI   Step   Offset      Base
 440   559  25.000    440     851.025000
 000   719  25.000      0     851.012500
 720   759  25.000      0     848.000000
 815   831  25.000      0     846.625000
 958   958  25.000    958     868.975000
 961  1022  25.000      0     843.400000
All but the first line are the "standard" 800 MHz table entries. The new line at the top (channels 440-559) tells the scanner the math to use for that "remapped" range of channels: VCfreq = (channel - Offset) x Step + Base

At present, the aforementioned PRO-96/2096 and PSR-500/600 are the only scanners that allow you to enter this information; they're the only scanners that will follow a "rebanded" system that has had any of its VC frequencies "moved" to the new 440-559 channel mappings.
Thanks for the clarification. Reading the 800MHz Reconfiguration Administrators site that mentions the FCC and channels 0-120, I and perhaps others, assumed they would simply re-number the channels to accomodate the re-located 866-869 freqs. Obviously, that was a bad assumption and it is much more complicated.
The point I was making is that after rebanding, older scanners will not be able to track Motorola systems.
 

Fix_It

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Don't know who is 800. That TG is normally named Cornelius EOC. It is located in the radios out west in zone B, position 11. Therefore, B-11. A-1 would be dispatch as another example. All of the Moto radios in use in Wash and Clack have either 3, 8, 10, 16 or 17 "zones" or banks of 16 "modes" or channels each. So anywhere from 48 to 272 channels each. 272? Yes. Why? Who knows. Because they can? :)
 

Baker845

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Thank you again Fix it for the info. So Ops 32-39 would be A-2 ect?
 

PMJ2kx

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Don't know who is 800. That TG is normally named Cornelius EOC. It is located in the radios out west in zone B, position 11. Therefore, B-11. A-1 would be dispatch as another example. All of the Moto radios in use in Wash and Clack have either 3, 8, 10, 16 or 17 "zones" or banks of 16 "modes" or channels each. So anywhere from 48 to 272 channels each. 272? Yes. Why? Who knows. Because they can? :)
800 - Duty Chief for Cornelius fire.
 

PMJ2kx

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60400 - WESTAC: Already in the DB; grouped with the common law channels for Washington County (I haven't heard anything on it myself)
52560 - Tactical Law, probably a CCSO channel, but I've only heard traffic on it once
65328 - Technician Radio for WCCCA - listening to the technicians talk is always interesting

Also, CCOM finally calls their channels OPS now, so (Ops 22, Ops 23, Ops 24, etc).
 

Baker845

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I just got done reprograming CCOM fire TGs today. I put those TGs you listed in radio. Thank you for info, keep up the good work and let use know what else you find.
 
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PMJ2kx

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New TGID: 55536
System: CCOM
Department: Canby Fire & Rescue

Battalion 6 was in contact with the station, Medic 62 (in quarters), and a unit called "Prevention 61" the whole time, trying to find out about a lot of "rude" smoke (that's what he said, anyway) near New Era (just north of Canby).
 

KE7JFF

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What was Canby Fire dispatched before from? CCOM Fire Dispatch? or am I missing something here?
 
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