Two Sites Number 023?

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Sometimes I like to look @ what is going on in other states. Well while looking @ the UCAN listing; I saw two sites numbered 024 but yet when it comes to the Summit County talk groups it lsits the a site with a number of 023. Just curious. That is all.

Summit County - Park City (Site 23)
 

qlajlu

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Sometimes I like to look @ what is going on in other states. Well while looking @ the UCAN listing; I saw two sites numbered 024 but yet when it comes to the Summit County talk groups it lsits the a site with a number of 023. Just curious. That is all.

Summit County - Park City (Site 23)
Jerry, if you will read this thread you will see that has been the subject of discussion off and on throughout the thread. We are in the process of trying to straighten this hiccup out and as soon as our road-ranger super-sleuths can determine the exact number it will be corrected. You will notice that there is a "?" by one of the sites.

Keep checking back, though. I'm not sure how long it will take to fix it.
 
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KT7L

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Already Fixed....

Quarry Mtn, the main, simul. site, WAS coming up as # 23 on UniTrunker. It has been changed to 24 for several months now. (I track it daily -- now using Uni - Alpha)
 

qlajlu

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Already Fixed....

Quarry Mtn, the main, simul. site, WAS coming up as # 23 on UniTrunker. It has been changed to 24 for several months now. (I track it daily -- now using Uni - Alpha)
It is still showing Summit County as site 024(?) in the UCAN listings with Quarry Mountain as site 024.
 

bneilson

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I think they made some adjustments up there and this one is no longer valid...

024 Summit County (?) 866.13750 866.41250 866.77500 867.62500 867.93750*
 

KT7L

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I agree with Brett.... The change was made when they dropped the CC from 867.9375 to 866.9375 a couple of months ago... The current RRef is up-to-date here.

The new CC seems to have the same simul. capabilities as before -- Monitoring with Alpha UniTracker, which I am 'trying' to get used to....
 

qlajlu

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I agree with Brett.... The change was made when they dropped the CC from 867.9375 to 866.9375 a couple of months ago... The current RRef is up-to-date here.

The new CC seems to have the same simul. capabilities as before -- Monitoring with Alpha UniTracker, which I am 'trying' to get used to....
That is not the issue. The issue is that the RR Db still shows the Summit County site as 024(?) and Quarry Mountain as site 024. It is the Db site numbering that is in need of change. At present there are two sites that have 024 as a site number. The Db needs to be changed to reflect the current status.

Where is my little tin hat? :roll: I'm getting very confused here. :confused:
 

KT7L

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"The issue is that the RR Db still shows the Summit County site as 024(?) and Quarry Mountain as site 024"

Ahhhhh, now I see what's on your mind. Here's the issue: The 024 area is "summit county" -- the actual mountain top is Quarry Mtn. They are one in the same site.... So, which should RRef Use? Most sites are listed by actual location, so I suggest the DB be changed to Quarry Mtn only....
 

qlajlu

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"The issue is that the RR Db still shows the Summit County site as 024(?) and Quarry Mountain as site 024"

Ahhhhh, now I see what's on your mind. Here's the issue: The 024 area is "summit county" -- the actual mountain top is Quarry Mtn. They are one in the same site.... So, which should RRef Use? Most sites are listed by actual location, so I suggest the DB be changed to Quarry Mtn only....
This is where it starts getting confusing...for me at least. According to the maps attached to the licenses, the Summit site is located at the Summit County Justice Center (Lic. WPRH428) and the Quarry Mtn. site has multiple installations similar to Salt Lake site 003 and shows two licenses (WPRH433 & WQHJ319).

Now, my next question is: Who determines the number on the sites? Is it UCAN? Do the site numbers show themselves when you use a decoder program such as UniTrunker? Do we assign the numbers and the decoder programs pick them up as the data from the Db is downloaded? Where do the site number assignments come from? :confused:

This is why I am confused and obviously it is confusing to those other members that visit our site from out of our area such as JerryNone who started this thread.
 

KT7L

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1. The Summit County Justice Center is the Dispatch for Summit Co., but it Transmitted from Quarry Mtn. So... they have a license, but don't transmit -- other than through a link to Quarry AND, they have a two-way link to PC Police -- But the only UCAN is Quarry. It has multi-licenses because it has county and city users.

2. My understanding is that UCAN creates the site #'s, they are part of the CC information for each transmission, and yes, UniTrunker displays them.
 

qlajlu

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1. The Summit County Justice Center is the Dispatch for Summit Co., but it Transmitted from Quarry Mtn. So... they have a license, but don't transmit -- other than through a link to Quarry AND, they have a two-way link to PC Police -- But the only UCAN is Quarry. It has multi-licenses because it has county and city users.

2. My understanding is that UCAN creates the site #'s, they are part of the CC information for each transmission, and yes, UniTrunker displays them.
Then I really do not understand why the confusion on site numbers if the site number is carried by the CC and UniTrunker can decode that information. Is there a site 023? Where is it? Why does our Db show Summit County (the Justice Center) as a trunked system if all it has are links. I'm getting a thundering headache.
 

KT7L

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Naaaahhhh, it's friday, the price of oil went up $10, so of course you have a headache!

The confusion of site # 23 came in when, A: UCAN had Quarry listed as 24, and the programmers for UCAN set it as 23. It was that way for at least a year. When UCAN 're-banded' Quarry down 1mhz a couple months ago, they corrected their programming error -- so it now correctly displays on Unitrunker as 24. Comprende? If not, it's time for more wine...

BTW, I have been in the radio room at Justice center... I wish I had taken my camera -- what a mess!!!
We do ARES from there for Summit Co....
 

qlajlu

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Naaaahhhh, it's friday, the price of oil went up $10, so of course you have a headache!
Oh, more good news!

The confusion of site # 23 came in when, A: UCAN had Quarry listed as 24, and the programmers for UCAN set it as 23. It was that way for at least a year. When UCAN 're-banded' Quarry down 1mhz a couple months ago, they corrected their programming error -- so it now correctly displays on Unitrunker as 24. Comprende? If not, it's time for more wine...
Okaaaayyyy, so what happened to site 023? Why are we still listing the Justice Center site as site 024(?)? From what you said earlier, why are we even listing the Justice Center site?

All I want to see is this little hiccup cleared up so it doesn't cause anymore confusion. Can you KT7L, submit a correction to the Db?
 

theaton

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Summit of confusion

I've been holding onto the "Summit County" site because wasn't sure if some of the frequencies listed there are being used by the current "Quarry Mtn" site. KT7L, if you feel comfortable that the Quarry site is complete (or submit any additions/changes) I'll happily delete the Summit County site.

-Tim
 

KT7L

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Tim:

Of the few things I am sure about, that's it.... Yes, please delete the Summit Co. site. If Summit Co. ever activates anything, I'll let you know, but they are just VHF with cable links to PC and Quarry Mtn
 

theaton

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Of the few things I am sure about, that's it.... Yes, please delete the Summit Co. site. If Summit Co. ever activates anything, I'll let you know, but they are just VHF with cable links to PC and Quarry Mtn
Done! I deleted Hickey Mountain as well. So where does that leave us with the simulcast issue? Should Sundance be deleted as well? Should I add Site Notes to Site 24 explaining that it is a siumucast system? Do we know all the simulcast locations?

-Tim
 

KT7L

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Tim:

"I add Site Notes to Site 24 explaining that it is a siumucast system? Do we know all the simulcast locations?"

Let me work on that.... I'll have to go through my Unitrunker files and make a few decisions on that... But yes, it is a simulcast... And it it's major support goes to Orem, Wasatch and Weber Counties.

I can't check Sundance from my location, so I don't know what the status is there...
 

bchris

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Wasatch/Summit Simulcast

KT7L,

If you track this area daily, it sounds like you are a good candidate to make the final ruling. Do you live near Park City, or do you drive through each day? Do you drive north/south or east/west? And will you please review this thread before you make a final decision? UCAN Road Trip Reports

I would also like to clarify some of my observations regarding the area and some previous posts.

Quarry Mtn, the main, simul. site, ...
I suppose the 'main' site would depend on one's perspective. If you work for Wasatch County SO or Heber PD, for example, you might consider the 'main' site to be the Wasatch County SO in Heber. For UHP it might be Jordanelle.

The 024 area is "summit county" -- the actual mountain top is Quarry Mtn. They are one in the same site.... So, which should RRef Use? Most sites are listed by actual location, so I suggest the DB be changed to Quarry Mtn only....
I agree that other UCAN sites are named according to location (mostly as per the name on FCC records), EXCEPT the other simulcast sites. The other simulcast sites are 1, 2, 3, &4. They are instead all named according to the area that they serve.

It IS already called "Wasatch Simo." Visit www.ucan800.org and read the meeting minutes from last year regarding this upgrade. ...
...I have picked up the control channel past the Oldstead Dam at the mouth of Provo Canyon, all the way to Heber, north-east on US 40 past Jordanelle and west on I-80 to just past Parleys Summit over on the Salt Lake County side and it's strong the whole way.
I did read those minutes, and I did drive a similar route. I concur with JR on all points.

As far as locations... I programmed the coordinates into my GPS for every UCAN transmitter site in the FCC database. Then I drove up Provo Canyon to Heber, past Jordanelle, north-east on I-80 to Echo Res, and west to Ogden. I stopped periodically to take signal strength and direction measurements.

I stopped at Vivian Park, where I could see what appeared to be the Sundance Site up on the peak just to my West. Being in the bottom of the canyon, this was the only signal that I could recieve, it was full strength, and it said site #24. There was no other control channel, and specifically no ID #17. Shall we delete Sundance#17 from the DB???

I stopped in Heber just across the street from a new building that appeared to be a new Wasatch County SO. FCC/GPS says this is a UCAN Tx site. It did have a tower full of antennas (antennae?). Again full strength (overwhelming), and site #24.

I stopped along the highway near the summit between Heber and Park City, just to the West and North of the Jordanelle Dam. Using a very directional antenna I detected peak signal strengths towards Heber, again to the north-west toward what the FCC calls 'Jordanelle', and toward the west-south-west with a much smaller strength. All of these said site #24. I could detect other CC frequencies, and they all had ID's other than 24.

Near the north end of Jordanelle I passed a small tower immediately on the west side of the highway, right where the GPS said it would be. I pulled off the next exit. It looked like there was a small new UHP office to the east of the exit. The readings here were pretty much the same as the previous stop, except I was losing Heber. I expected to pick up a signal to the north, from what the FCC calls 'Summit County SO', but still didnt get much to speak of.

Using the GPS I found and drove through the roundabout at the Summit County SO. I parked on the hill on the north side of Home Depot, <1/4 mile from the SO. I scanned every direction at least 2 times. I got pretty frustrated because I expected to be overwhelmed with a signal from the SO (same freq or maybe different), but wasn't. The peak SS seemed to be coming from the direction of Quarry Mtn, still with ID #24. Knowing that a yagi antenna also recieves quite a bit from straight behind and I was inline with the SO on one side and QM (in the distance) on the other, I didnt know what to think.

The CC signal strength for 'site #24' became weaker and weaker from that point on. I never drove to or actually saw Quarry Mtn, just it's signal.

After reading your posts, KT7L, my Summit SO readings and frustrations now make some sense!!!

As I understand it they took these four sites and made a Simulcast system out of them.
Sundance-Jordanelle-Wasatch Justice-Quarry
My info agrees w/ Gadgetmikey, and it looks like the name probably should be 'Wasatch Simo', as per JR.
Tim will delete the Summit SO site, and perhaps Sundance #17.
Do you agree? Anyone else have final comments? I think we can put this thing to bed real soon.
 

Junior1970

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When the UCAN engineers were setting this whole thing up over a year ago they were all calling it "Wasatch Simo" so that's how I labled it. The old CCs or voice freqs for the IR Sundance site are not active and haven't been since that time. I second the Wasatch Simo nomination.
 

theaton

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Wasatch Simulcast update

Good work guys. This has been a real group effort. Wow bchris, you really went beyond the call of duty by surveying the whole area with a yagi!

Following the group recommendations I deleted Sundance as an independent site and changed Site 24 to Wasatch Simulcast. It looks like WQHJ319 is the primary license that covers all four sites. But that license doesn’t cover all the frequencies that are listed in the DB (including the listed Alt Ctrl channel), so two other licenses are listed as well (old Quarry Mtn and Sundance). KT7L, maybe you could run Unitrunker for a few days and update the frequency list. I added a new one from my recent trip through the area, so I think the list needs a fresh look. (Or we could wait for rebanding to do this.)

I found the meeting minutes that I believe Junior1970 referred to, which were helpful. They say: “Working hard to completed the Wasatch Simulcast for review at the next meeting. This will connect Quarry Mountain, Sundance, Jordanelle and Wasatch Justice Center to create a 4-site simulcast network with 8-channels.” I wonder if “8-channels” meant 8 total frequency pairs or 8 voice pairs? We have 11 frequencies listed at present, so some may be spurious.

I welcome further updates or suggestions. Thanks for all the good work.

-Tim
 
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