UCA Harris changeover

[PJH]

Lets make this a sticky.

As indicated in a previous thread, Harris won the contract for the new UCA P25 system. Also contrary to some information in the previous thread, no Harris is not already replacing trunked site equipment at sites. Towers may be reused, but the equipment itself is not compatible in any way, shape or form, other than conventional radios.

As this system will be a new concept for those in Utah, here are some things to look for in submitting information to the RadioReference Database:

Harris typically uses System ID 001 (or similar). Harris uses the true P25 spec and uses the WACN as the top tier system identifier. There are quite a few P25 P1/P2 trunked systems with SysID 001, so its most likely not an error you may see in the software.

In addition, Harris usually uses the same RFSS and Site ID at each site. IE, Site 28 could be RFSS 28/Site 28.

Be VERY careful and be sure of the information you submit, as different decoding software packages may or may not present the information in which you are accustomed to see with Motorola legacy and P25 systems.

This will be a Phase 2/TDMA enabled system. Again, watch what you use for decoding software as some talkgroups may be P1, some P2, or P1's will transition to P2 over time.

Harris typically also incorporates "patch" talkgroups which are virtual talkgroups assigned by the system for patches and other magic. System Assigned ID (SAID) patches are used in Harris infrastructures in a pool configuration. When patches are enabled, the system will assign one of the talkgroups from the pool while the patch is active. I'm sure as the transition starts, they will be used quite a bit. Usually you see a pool of 20 ish talkgroups in a block for this purpose.

Harris won the award, but the contract has not been executed yet.

 

[gldavis]

"not compatible in any way". Does this mean that every single user on the current system, will have to buy new "Harris" equipment? Or will the Harris equipment be compatible with what is being used today?
- And I think it was me who said that site equipment was being replaced. I got that from a "knowledgeable" person working at a radio shop in SLC. I thought it was odd, at the time.

 

[PJH]

Site equipment (repeaters) are not compatible. I went to get Harris equipment as part of our P25 expansion and both Harris and Moto said no on infrastructure.

P25 P1 and P2 subscribers will work fine.

 

[gldavis]

If I remember correctly, few of the sites had digital capable equipment installed. Maybe that is the issue? So, if the users radio is P25 compatible, it will work?

 

[PJH]

No. It’s different equipment from different vendors on the infrastructure side.

let’s try it this way:

Both Ford and Chevy make 4WD trucks, but you cant use a ford part in a chevy transfer case.

Motorola trunking site products do not interface with Harris, Kenwood etc etc.

 

[PJH]

Also what is installed for the P25 talkgroups is for SmartZone aka 3600bps trunking which is not Phase 1 or Phase 2 - it’s motorola proprietary trunking format.

 

[gldavis]

So, back to my original question, all the current users will be required to renegotiate contracts and purchase new, compatible, equipment if they want to continue using the system? My town (Bountiful) has been purchasing new radios the last couple of years, and just upgraded its communications center.

 

[PJH]

Depends on what they bought.

As stated above, if they bought Radios that are 9600 capable, then no - they are good to go.

In all reality, all Motorola radios in the last 10 years are capable of Phase 1, and the APX line is capable of Phase 2.

it just depends if they purchased the software in the radios to do it.

 

[mpcpsrego1]

We still have XTS5k's and currently have a mix of XTL5k's and MCS2k's(that are being replaced slowly) but as far as what we have we are good to go on the switch(minus the MCS2k's). Their not pushing Phase ll on everyone just ensuring that everyone has compatible equipment for P25 for change over. Then over time agencies will have to change to Phase ll capable equipment. A lot of agencies have radios that are good to go on Phase l and just replacing whatever isn't P25 compatible out with newer radios that are. But I can assure you that when the switch happens there will be plenty of XTS2500's, XTS5k's and XTL5k's that are gonna be used on that system cause budgets are gonna be tight for a while and if they have radios that work then they will use them. You would be amazed at the amount of MCS2k's and MTS2k's that are still in use on the current SZ system LOL. UCA reps stated that it will be a Phase ll backwards compatible Phase l system, they don't plan on pushing full Phase ll on anyone until about 3 or so years after the system is up and fully running on P25, so any agency that meets the P25 standards will be ok to bring that existing equipment on and it doesn't have to be Moto product cause I know of one agency right now that has newer Kenwoods on the SZ systems and they will use them on the switch over cause they are P25 capable

 

[gldavis]

Thanks for the replies about the equipment. Now, I'm curious about the "patches" that we may/will be seeing. Will these replace the current Regional Talkgroups or supplement them? And more importantly, I do believe I need to study up on Harris P25 systems and learn more, before, it starts here.
Again, thank-you for your patience and replies.

 

[PJH]

Too early to say. Contract isn’t signed yet.

will work like any other P25 Phase 1 or 2 system.

Its transparent to the user.

The LDS system is a Harris made P25 system.

 

[mpcpsrego1]

I concur with @PJH it is still too early to tell what is gonna happen with the system considering Moto and Harris are tied up in a battle over who should be constructing the system more then likely it will be Harris but Moto is just upset and going to drag it out but system wise once up and running it will be pretty cut and dry as far as TG's that are on the current SZ system that we currently have.

 

[PJH]

Courts have already awarded Harris as the winning bidder, the state and Harris are just working on the final details.

 

[mpcpsrego1]

Ah gotcha! I wasn't for sure where they were at with that, last I knew it was still tied up court wise. At least now they can start the roll out phase on it, definitely been long enough LOL

 

[kc7rhw]

Have any one heard if they are going to lock out the media and scanner user with that dreaded en.
or is it going to be in the clear.

 

[mpcpsrego1]

I have heard of no talk in regards to use of E but that doesn't mean that it can't be implemented as time goes on. Personally I don't think dispatch channels will ever go E but I could see tac/ops/event/swat and potentially C/C channels eventually being E. And I could be wrong on that note too, just never know these days anymore.

 

[jasdjensen]

Do we know whether they will implement digital? My gut says no, since that would mean a large scale radio replacement would likely be needed. I'm assuming maybe more use of digital for some talkgroups. There are a couple of talkgroups currently using digital and encryption, but it seems like there is a specific reason (such as LifeFlight, etc).

 

[PJH]

P25 is digital.

analog systems are not supported by Harris or Motorola.

 

[mpcpsrego1]

Actually the system as a whole will be fully digital. Phase ll backwards compatable Phase l trunking. So it's fully digital, no analog at all.

 

[4paul19]

Is it safe to buy a new radio now or wait it out?