Status
Not open for further replies.

KM4GAV

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
5
Location
Orlando, FL
I wanted to share, with you all, a public records success story of mine.

A few weeks ago, 12/05/2018, I submitted a public records request to UCF (University of Central Florida), in order to receive a list of talk groups, their ids, names, and associated departments. This is a record I was expecting the staff to already have in existance and have easy access to. Unfortunately, this was not the case. Originally, there was going to be a $175 fee ($75/hr for 2 hours) for the records ‘search/compilation’. I found this cost to be unreasonable and excessive, especially for a record that I was expecting an employee to have readily accessible. I was able to push back and get the cost reduced to $51 ($35/hr for 1.5 hours). Granted, it is still not the fee of $0 that I was expecting, but it was much better than the latter. A day after I posted payment (12/19/2018), I had received the records I had been looking for. At least I should say most of the records I had been looking for. There were multiple talk groups that they cited as exempted. This included but was not limited to Parking Enforcement (10) and Nighttime Student Escorts (12). I will quote the exemption(s) cited for the removal of these groups:
Information excluded from this list included Talkgroup information that is exempt from disclosure due to it's use in UCF's Department of Security and Emergency Management's Safety and Securtiy Plan and/or HIPPA regulations as outlined in Chapter 119.071 of the 2018 Florida Statues.
They did however, exempt some talk groups that I am unsure how they have to do with such a plan or HIPPA regulations (also I do not think the disclosure of talk group names would lead to a HIPPA violation unless they are disclosing HIPPA information over unencrypted RF). These groups included, but are not limited to, Parking Maintenance (11), Computer Services (15), Parking Services (57), Electricians (95), CFE Arena 203 (203). Regardless, I just took it at their word that they are exempt, but maybe someone else would want to dispute them on this.

I have since sent the list to a RR admin to update the UCF Cap+ listing.

To check out the original request and the responsive records (the list of talk groups, their names, and associated departments) follow this link.

Takeaways:
  • Getting radio talk groups from public entities, at least in Florida, where the public records law is broad, is possible!
  • Don’t be afraid to dispute a fee, if you believe it is unjustified.
  • At least in UCF’s case, they did not move to encryption, and I doubt they will.
  • Ask if they expect any records to be exempt beforehand. I did not do this.
  • I think they had a document that contained both the talk group ids and the names, but I may have worded my request in such a way that they had to compile a new document (such as the addition of the department column).
  • Radio Reference is now home to 93 confirmed talk groups for the UCF Cap+ radio system.

I understand that, I am very likely going to get flak for submitting a public record request on this topic, but let this show as an example of what happens when you succeed at a public records request for radio system information.

Have a great day everyone!

TL;DR: I submitted a public records request to UCF, and after a $51 search fee and 2 weeks later I received a list of most talk groups associated with the UCF Cap+ radio system.
 

IMPRES2

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 8, 2014
Messages
137
*Janurary 7th, 2019 on the RR forums*

“UCF groups posted by KM4GAV are no longer working. Further digging shows a PO to Motorola service partner XYZ for the reprogramming of 1033 radios for UCF to move/restructure talkgroups and enable system-wide Restricted Access and Enhanced Privacy.”

This is why many new MOTOTRBO systems are being deployed with RAS and EDP enabled from the start.
Once there is encryption then there is no purpose in listening; unless one enjoys garbled nonsense. Good luck using FIOA to get RAS / EDP keys!
 

KM4GAV

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
5
Location
Orlando, FL
*Janurary 7th, 2019 on the RR forums*

“UCF groups posted by KM4GAV are no longer working. Further digging shows a PO to Motorola service partner XYZ for the reprogramming of 1033 radios for UCF to move/restructure talkgroups and enable system-wide Restricted Access and Enhanced Privacy.”

This is why many new MOTOTRBO systems are being deployed with RAS and EDP enabled from the start.
Once there is encryption then there is no purpose in listening; unless one enjoys garbled nonsense. Good luck using FIOA to get RAS / EDP keys!
As I said, this is what I expected to see as the majority of messages. If this ends up being the case, you should diffidently come back and say "I told you so". Heck, I'll even update the OP and title to reflect it as a horror story.

As it stands, this is obviously right to know information to the public in the state of Florida.

Also, FS119 is not FOIA (you misspelled this on your post). FOIA only applies to federal government, UCF is a state university, so FS119, the Florida Sunshine Laws apply.
 

IMPRES2

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 8, 2014
Messages
137
As I said, this is what I expected to see as the majority of messages. If this ends up being the case, you should diffidently come back and say "I told you so". Heck, I'll even update the OP and title to reflect it as a horror story.

As it stands, this is obviously right to know information to the public in the state of Florida.

Also, FS119 is not FOIA (you misspelled this on your post). FOIA only applies to federal government, UCF is a state university, so FS119, the Florida Sunshine Laws apply.
I misspelled it, indeed (autocorrect ruins conversations).
UCF was buddied up with WETC pretty close before WETC was split and bought by Motorola and another Channel Partner. After the split UCF still stayed with the WETC service side (now directly Motorola) and has relied on them to service/support/program. Now there is the unknown possibility that the UCF system is contacted under Motorola's "Supported Services" package. If the system is contracted in such way then there is a high chance they have all those units in Radio Management with a direct IP connection to the Master Repeater. If that is the case they can OTAP a new configuration to the fielded subs in a matter of hours; I have personally witnessed this on another multi-site system in Orlando.
 
Joined
Feb 14, 2008
Messages
2,578
The abbreviation should be HIPAA, rather than "HIPPA". But I would hope requests like this won't make agencies want to encrypt any more than they already do now. Especially in Orlando.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top