UFA / VECC Fire 16?

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bneilson

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Hey guys,

Fire is doing RIT/Mayday training today on TAC 9 (21440).

They are advising people to switch to "Channel 16".

I seem to remember that we have talked about a Channel 16 but I cant find it in the DB or in a quick forum search.

Anybody got any ideas?
 

qlajlu

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bneilson said:
Hey guys,

Fire is doing RIT/Mayday training today on TAC 9 (21440).

They are advising people to switch to "Channel 16".

I seem to remember that we have talked about a Channel 16 but I cant find it in the DB or in a quick forum search.

Anybody got any ideas?
Yeah, I've been hearing that, too. I didn't hear any corresponding traffic on any other of their identified TGs or any of the Ops TGs that I could say was coming from them, either.
 

Utah_Viper

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Heard this in training alot, have never determined where '16' is though. They never have switched since its just a drill. Im assuming that the mean that all FD radios the channel 16 is the same TG, just need to determine what that is.
 

gldavis

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After they said to "switch to 16", did they leave TG 21440, or were they still there?

There has been two times, over thepast week, while I've been monitoring Davis Co, that one user was told to swith to Ch-xx, and they moved, but Trunker did not show where they went. I am starting to think that they have the capabilities of a channel that does not go thru the repeaters, so the controller would not be involved. It could be one of the NPSTC channels, ot the use of a repeater input with out the repeater turning on.
 

utahcomms

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I kept hearing them on 21440, but I was only listening while I went to pick up some parts. It was a definite training exercise. Nothing on any other groups that seemed related.
 

bneilson

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gldavis said:
...I am starting to think that they have the capabilities of a channel that does not go thru the repeaters...
They do! The Talkaround frequencies are 100% this way and do not involve a repeater they are straight simplex

868.4000 TA1
868.4875 TA2
868.7625 TA3
867.1250 TA4
867.7000 TA5

They could also be using one of these:
866.0125 ICALL
866.5125 ITAC 1
867.0125 ITAC 2
867.5125 ITAC 3
868.0125 ITAC 4
868.9875 ITAC Fire
867.7875 ILAW FED
868.4000 STATE RPT 1
868.4875 STATE RPT 2
868.7625 STATE RPT 3

I however did not see them moving to another channel. Where this was training I wouldn't expect them to. However when they were saying "Channel 16" that told me there is something we didn't know. A good portion of Motorola's have 16 channels per zone, so this would be the last channel in that zone. It might be a standard to program all departments last channel the same way... I guess we can just keep listening and maybe one of us will get the opportunity to find out in person on catch it on the air.
 

gldavis

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Do you believe/are you saying that...all these talkaround freqs are programed into all the UCAN radios?? I hope not. I gotta check and make sure I have these in my scanners, and not locked out.
 

bneilson

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All is a big word... I do now that the TA ones are programed in to at least some of the UCAN radios, but it is hard to say if it is ALL of them ;) .
 

enosjones

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gldavis said:
Do you believe/are you saying that...all these talkaround freqs are programed into all the UCAN radios?? I hope not. I gotta check and make sure I have these in my scanners, and not locked out.
I know for my area 868.400 is used once in a while. but i have all programmed seperate from the trunked systems.
 

theaton

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800 MHz conventional

enosjones said:
I know for my area 868.400 is used once in a while. but i have all programmed seperate from the trunked systems.
bneilson lists 868.400 as both a simplex and a state repeater frequency. Do you know which it is in your area, Enos? Brett, where did you get that list?

I looked up some of these 800 MHz frequencies in the FCC DB, and they are licensed to Utah State in SLC rather than in the indivicual counties. The map of state repeaters I recently posted at http://www.radioreference.com/data/images/a/4023/USRS.gif shows a 800 MHz conventional repeater in Carbon County and several other counties, but no frequencies are given in the SCIP document where I got the map (and no real clues from the FCC licenses).

At the meeting I attended last month Jerry mentioned 800 MHz repeaters at Little Sahara and in Summit County, but so far he hasn't provided the details I asked him for.

I'd like to enter the 800 MHz repeaters and simplex frequencies in the DB, but I don't know what is used where. Can anyone help out?

-Tim

P.S. Here are some relevant quotes from the 2007 SCIP document:

"Regions outside the Wasatch Front area primarily utilize conventional technology in the VHF 150 – 174 MHz spectrum for wireless voice communications. The state provides 800 MHz analog conventional radio coverage in limited areas of the same region for purposes of interoperability between 800 MHz and VHF systems." (p. 26)

"Spectrum congestion in the VHF spectrum combined with the inability to secure additional frequencies required for system expansion compounds an ever increasing interoperability problem in the state. This is especially true near population centers where existing spectrum resources are already overloaded. The state provides limited 800 MHz conventional analog radio coverage in select rural areas, but fails to provide enough coverage for acceptable interoperability with agencies traveling to rural areas of the state from the Wasatch Front region." (p. 27)

The Murray Police Department and Murray City Fire Department are listed as using a "800 MHz Analog Conventional" system. (pp. 31-32)

The Unitah Region lists "800 MHz Analog Conventional (Voice)", "6 Channels in use (700 MHz)", "4 Channels in Use (800 MHz)". (p. 36) The Six County Region (west central Utah) lists "800 MHz Analog Conventional (Voice)", "6 Channels in use (700 MHz)", "2 Channels in Use (800 MHz Analog Conventional)" as well as UCAN. (p. 37) [Several other regions list similar information.]

"The SRS also provides limited 800 MHz conventional analog coverage outside the UCAN network footprint to facilitate interoperability between 800 MHz and VHF statewide. Existing 800 MHz conventional coverage outside the UCAN network footprint is inadequate for statewide interoperability requirements." (p. 46)

"Salt Lake City [TRS] and Murray City [Conventional] are the only cities within the UCAN network footprint today that continue to operate independent 800 MHz radio communications systems." (p. 50-51) [They seem to be forgetting the Provo/BYU system.]

"Meanwhile the Utah Department of Technology Services in partnership with the Utah Department of Public Safety has undertaken the task of expanding conventional analog 800 MHz coverage into rural areas of the state in a limited fashion. Statewide interoperability between existing conventional VHF 150 MHz and 800 MHz systems cannot be achieved without expanding 800 MHz coverage into regions where it currently does not exist." (p. 51)

Mutual Aid National 1 (ICALL) Assigned as needed 866.0125 / 821.0125 MHz CSQ
Mutual Aid National 2 (ITAC1) Assigned as needed 866.5125 / 821.5125 MHz CSQ
Mutual Aid National 3 (ITAC2) Assigned as needed 867.0125 / 822.0125 MHz CSQ
Mutual Aid National 4 (ITAC3) Assigned as needed 867.5125 / 822.5125 MHz CSQ
Mutual Aid National 5 (ITAC4) Assigned as needed 868.0125 / 823.0125 MHz CSQ
State Mutual Aid ST TA1 As Assigned 868.4000 / 868.4000 MHz CSQ
State Mutual Aid ST TA2 As Assigned 868.4875 / 868.4875 MHz CSQ
State Mutual Aid ST TA3 As Assigned 868.7625 / 868.7625 MHz CSQ
State Mutual Aid ST TA4 As Assigned 867.1250 / 867.1250 MHz CSQ
State Mutual Aid ST TA5 As Assigned 867.7000 / 867.7000 MHz CSQ
State Mutual Aid STRPTR1 As Assigned 868.4000 / 823.4000 MHz CSQ
State Mutual Aid STRPTR2 As Assigned 868.4875 / 823.4875 MHz CSQ
State Mutual Aid STRPTR3 As Assigned 868.7625 / 823.7625 MHz CSQ
State Mutual Aid STRPTR4 As Assigned 867.1250 / 822.1250 MHz CSQ
State Mutual Aid STRPTR5 As Assigned 867.7000 / 822.7000 MHz CSQ (p. 62)
 
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enosjones

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Its simplex and I think its just when they drive through. I programmed my scanner with all the tactical and national emergency frequencies. I'll have to find the site/paper that i got the info from. im leaving this weekend to go near Cedar Mountain I'll let you know what i find out.
 

fastattackus

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All of the UCAN and SLC radios have the Talk around freqs and tac channels programmed into them. The talkaround ones are called ground one and ground two in SLC. They are used when SLC goes into a high rise and looses the signal from the repeater. The interior unit then switches to the ground channel, and hopefully is able to communicate with command who is supposed to have one of his radios on that at all times. Also, they are used by engines when backing up so that the driver and the backer can talk with each other without using up air time. I've heard pd use it from time to time when chatting with each other and not wanting it to go over "the air" remember, they are non repeated line of sight. You can certainly program them in your scanner, but they only go about 1 1/2 to 2 miles. At least thats been my experiance when using them.

They can also be used in the event of a total radio failure so that you can still split and events onto different channels.
 
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gldavis

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They do! The Talkaround frequencies are 100% this way and do not involve a repeater they are straight simplex

868.4000 TA1
868.4875 TA2
868.7625 TA3
867.1250 TA4
867.7000 TA5

They could also be using one of these:
866.0125 ICALL
866.5125 ITAC 1
867.0125 ITAC 2
867.5125 ITAC 3
868.0125 ITAC 4
868.9875 ITAC Fire
867.7875 ILAW FED
868.4000 STATE RPT 1
868.4875 STATE RPT 2
868.7625 STATE RPT 3

I however did not see them moving to another channel. Where this was training I wouldn't expect them to. However when they were saying "Channel 16" that told me there is something we didn't know. A good portion of Motorola's have 16 channels per zone, so this would be the last channel in that zone. It might be a standard to program all departments last channel the same way... I guess we can just keep listening and maybe one of us will get the opportunity to find out in person on catch it on the air.

I was asked a question on these freqs the other day, and sadly, I do not know the answer. How does the rebanding effort affect these repeater systems? They are in the Nextel "Move 'em out" zone.
Anyone hearing anything about the State Repeater System (SRS) being relocated?
 

theaton

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I was asked a question on these freqs the other day, and sadly, I do not know the answer. How does the rebanding effort affect these repeater systems? They are in the Nextel "Move 'em out" zone.
Anyone hearing anything about the State Repeater System (SRS) being relocated?
If you look up the licenses for these frequencies, you'll find that each one has a partner 15 MHz down, such as these at license WQCV816:

1 851.51250000 16K0F3E FB2 SALT LAKE CITY SALT LAKE UT
1 866.51250000 16K0F3E FB2 SALT LAKE CITY SALT LAKE UT

I assume they will be moving down along with the trunked frequencies. Since they are rarely (if ever) used, the "conversion date" doesn't mean much. :)

-Tim
 

N7YUO

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Source: http://www.ucan800.org/rebanding.html
Subject: Rebanding Status (05/22/2008)

We have started to reband infrastructure but only the conventional sites located in rural Utah. The main trunked radio infrastructure rebanding is scheduled to begin in late June but we are making every effort to find and complete all user radios prior to changing the sites.

If any of you are aware of radios that have not been rebanded please contact us ASAP.

As a reminder when we start changing infrastructure radios that have not been upgraded will not function.

Conclusion: Since they are now rebanding trunked sites, I believe all conventional sites have been rebanded since that was their original plan.
 
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