UHF Mobile repeater setup

[Project25_MASTR]

I think there are several things I would add.

Firstly, your shop's reluctance to work on your system may be due to several factors. I may be their sales/technical staff does is not aware of analog linking/voting solutions simply due to the fact they may not have a vendor that offers that solution. They may also be looking solely at the $$$ of selling completely new infrastructure versus nickel and dime profits from getting your existing system working the way you want it. Seriously, my former employer (several here know who that was) had a special projects engineer completely build a ground up community repeater for a customer who needed a new repeater. The cost involved was the cost of the community tone panel, two Motorola XPR5550e mobile radios, a CDR housing with power supply and duplexer, and the "engineering" building custom interface cables and fully testing function. Had someone brought the question to someone in service...they would've just been told to RTFM for a SLR5700 as it walks you through setting up a community repeater. It was a case of $10,000 to the customer versus $4,000.

Secondly, there are many solutions that may work for you. I'd first try and figure out how your existing system is set up. Is it multicast (multi-sites on different frequencies), simulcast (all sites on the same frequency) or sloppy-cast (same frequency different tones at each site). A quick and dirty way I can think of is (assuming cellular coverage is adequate outside of buildings) putting a simple mobile repeater on the command vehicle interfaced to a NXU-2. On the other end, another NXU-2 can either be implemented directly interfaced to the existing system or via a link radio at a fixed point to tie the mobile repeater back together but like I said, it's quick and dirty and may not be the correct long term solution.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Lastly, there is not another shop locally that deals in Kenwood (that we can find) and we do not plan to go to the TACN Motorola system at this time. We find Motorola equipment to be much more costly and we have a surplus of great Kenwood equipment that we have purchased from other local department that have moved to the 800MHZ TACN system.

If TACN is a true P25 network, you should contact them and request an approved subscriber list.

The provincial P25 network has approved radios from a wide range of vendors, including Kenwood. Our network currently has Motorola, Harris, Kenwood and Relm/BK subscribers in use on Harris P25 phase 1 infrastructure. Tait subscribers arealso approved, but I don’t personally know of any I use.

 

[krokus]

If TACN is a true P25 network, you should contact them and request an approved subscriber list.

The provincial P25 network has approved radios from a wide range of vendors, including Kenwood. Our network currently has Motorola, Harris, Kenwood and Relm/BK subscribers in use on Harris P25 phase 1 infrastructure. Tait subscribers arealso approved, but I don’t personally know of any I use.

This is a decent option, that would cost more at the start, but would be a long term solution. In Michigan, the MPSCS administration has a list of approved subscriber radios.

Another option: instead of mobile repeaters, maybe adding a few receive sites, with a new/better voting controller. (This is assuming that comms from dispatch to the field are acceptable, and the issues are with field units being heard.)

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

We used to use these from Pyramid SVR-200's not sure on cost anymore though. Can find used ones on ebay. And can set up to where if you have more than one of these on the scene the last one to activate will be the main unit.
Vehicular Repeater Products - Pyramid Communications

Most of the used Pyramids are wide band, you have to look at the serial tag. I think SVR200UN is correct, but consult factory website to be sure.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Another thing to consider with vehicular repeaters is the internal priority logic that determines which vehicle on site is supposed to repeat. You need some sort of contact closure from each vehicle as it is parked on scene. That can come from the parking brake . Read the theory because with multiple units at a big location, it can be tricky and they can interfere with each other until the logic sorts it out. If there is a ridge or obstruction between vehicles, it may not get sorted out.

 

[N1NVL]

Why not just set the radios to simplex while on the scene and let one engine relay any info needed to dispatch - if everyone is in/around the building you should not have to talk all the way to the nearest tower just to talk the the firefighter on the second floor - fireground local communications would be the best way to go (my humble opinion)

 

[krokus]

Why not just set the radios to simplex while on the scene and let one engine relay any info needed to dispatch - if everyone is in/around the building you should not have to talk all the way to the nearest tower just to talk the the firefighter on the second floor - fireground local communications would be the best way to go (my humble opinion)

That is what is (finally) taking place around here. 8Tac93 will be usedby interior crews, and the IC will relay pertinent info to dispatch.

 

[maurycofire]

Hello,

In the past week or so I have been in touch with our local shop. The service manager has advised me that "the panels our system was built on have been discontinued" and for that reason we would have to upgraded our entire system in order to expand. He did mention there would be some equipment that could still be used such as the power supplies. Does anyone have advice or an idea of how we can do this for the lowest cost?

Thanks

 

[maurycofire]

Hello,

In the past week or so I have been in touch with our local shop. The service manager has advised me that "the panels our system was built on have been discontinued" and for that reason we would have to upgraded our entire system in order to expand. He did mention there would be some equipment that could still be used such as the power supplies. Does anyone have advice or an idea of how we can do this for the lowest cost?

Thanks

I did want to add this. I do believe our system is setup all on the same tone and frequency. Each site has a "Telex" box that keeps the system in time. This is what Iv'e been told anyways.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Hello,

In the past week or so I have been in touch with our local shop. The service manager has advised me that "the panels our system was built on have been discontinued" and for that reason we would have to upgraded our entire system in order to expand. He did mention there would be some equipment that could still be used such as the power supplies. Does anyone have advice or an idea of how we can do this for the lowest cost?

Thanks

It must be a local thing, but I have never heard comm equipment referred to as "panels". And you certainly want new power supplies with new gear. Who owns and manages your system? You might want to hire an independent consultant to determine your needs and make recommendations for alternatives and budgetary price to replace what you have.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I did want to add this. I do believe our system is setup all on the same tone and frequency. Each site has a "Telex" box that keeps the system in time. This is what Iv'e been told anyways.

On the face of what you just said, I am guessing you have a simulcast system and have GPS to keep it in synch. Again you need someone independent and knowledgeable to look at what you have and need.

 

[Floridarailfanning]

the service manager has advised me that "the panels our system was built on have been discontinued" and for that reason we would have to upgraded our entire system in order to expand.

IMHO It sounds like the dealer isn't interested in modifying or trying to work with the old system because they don't think it's worth their time, which is why they immediately recommended replacing the system. I hate when vendors try to convince customers to replace old systems when they should just be honest about the possible solutions. Just because the equipment is old doesn't immediately mean it MUST be replaced. As long as it continues to function properly, and you have personnel who understand how to maintain the equipment and the systems inner-workings I would keep what you have.

You might want to hire an independent consultant to determine your needs and make recommendations for alternatives and budgetary price to replace what you have.

I totally agree. Find a good consultant and see what their thought is first.