UHF-TV repacking and PS TRS Interference

r60

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Anyone have any specific information about tropo and issues with 470-512 TRS systems as it relates to FCC repacking UHF-TV station changes.

I suspect a secondary result of the many UHF-TV changes may cause more or less problems for some NJ systems.

We know the PS systems operate on a secondary basis.

Thoughts?
 

GTR8000

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The NYC Metro area is authorized to use the following T-Band channels, so those are the ones to watch for with regard to transition phase 10 of the spectrum repacking:

Ch 14 - 470-476
Ch 15 - 476-482
Ch 16 - 482-488

Here is a list of TV stations I found changing to/from any of those three channels. Since some are coming and some are going, it looks to be a mixed bag.

Call Sign: KTLM
DMA: Harlingen-Weslaco-Brownsville-McAllen, TX
Old Channel: 40
New Channel: 14

Call Sign: WFOX-TV
DMA: Jacksonville, FL
Old Channel: 32
New Channel: 14

Call Sign: KHPZ-CD
DMA: Austin, TX
Old Channel: 15
New Channel: 25

Call Sign: WICS
DMA: Champaign & Springfield-Decatur, IL
Old Channel: 42
New Channel: 15

Call Sign: WSEC
DMA: Champaign & Springfield-Decatur, IL
Old Channel: 15
New Channel: 18

Call Sign: KETD
DMA: Denver, CO
Old Channel: 45
New Channel: 15

Call Sign: WCWF
DMA: Green Bay-Appleton, WI
Old Channel: 21
New Channel: 15

Call Sign: WFFF-TV
DMA: Burlington, VT-Plattsburgh, NY
Old Channel: 43
New Channel: 16

Call Sign: WRSP-TV
DMA: Champaign & Springfield-Decatur, IL
Old Channel: 44
New Channel: 16

Call Sign: W16DO-D
DMA: Cleveland-Akron (Canton), OH
Old Channel: 16
New Channel: 27

Call Sign: WYBU-CD
DMA: Columbus, GA
Old Channel: 16
New Channel: 26

Call Sign: KSEE
DMA: Fresno-Visalia, CA
Old Channel: 38
New Channel: 16

Call Sign: WHRO-TV
DMA: Norfolk-Portsmouth-Newport News, VA
Old Channel: 16
New Channel: 31

Call Sign: WTKR
DMA: Norfolk-Portsmouth-Newport News, VA
Old Channel: 40
New Channel: 16

Call Sign: KTKA-TV
DMA: Topeka, KS
Old Channel: 49
New Channel: 16

Call Sign: WNEP-TV
DMA: Wilkes Barre-Scranton, PA
Old Channel: 50
New Channel: 16
 
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u2brent

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DTV 19V-CH 10.1-4WAVYNBCPortsmouthVA10.1 WAVY NBC 2 BOUNCE 3 GET 4 CBNwas DTV 31
 

r60

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Really interesting topic and thank-you @u2brent. New problems are cropping up that were not present in the past. I know MIRS has had issues, now I am hearing others are having troubles when there were not problems in the past. Hard to understand how a sub to a TRS is 1/4 mile from a site and it is overridden by a TV station 260 of miles away.
 

tvengr

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Hard to understand how a sub to a TRS is 1/4 mile from a site and it is overridden by a TV station 260 of miles away.
When Baltimore County PD was on low band. they frequently got wiped out by Los Angeles County PD. I thought that the voice of the female dispatcher sounded familiar. Later, I read that the dispatcher's voice on the Adam-12 TV show was done by a police dispatcher.
 
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GTR8000

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Oops, I had forgotten that quite a few agencies got waivers to also use Chs 19 and 20 in the NYC area, plus of course the Philly/Camden area uses 19-20 as well.

Ch 19 - 500-506
Ch 20 - 506-512

Call Sign: WPSD-TV
DMA: Paducah, KY-Cape Girardeau, MO-Harrisburg-Mt Vernon, IL
Old Channel: 32
New Channel: 19

Call Sign: KMUM-CD
DMA: Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto, CA
Old Channel: 31
New Channel: 19

Call Sign: WTOG
DMA: Tampa-St. Petersburg (Sarasota), FL
Old Channel: 44
New Channel: 19

Call Sign: WVPB-TV
DMA: Charleston-Huntington, WV
Old Channel: 34
New Channel: 20

Call Sign: KFTV-DT
DMA: Fresno-Visalia, CA
Old Channel: 20
New Channel: 21

Call Sign: WGNT
DMA: Norfolk-Portsmouth-Newport News, VA
Old Channel: 50
New Channel: 20

Call Sign: WCTV
DMA: Tallahassee, FL-Thomasville, GA
Old Channel: 46
New Channel: 20

Call Sign: KTMJ-CD
DMA: Topeka, KS
Old Channel: 43
New Channel: 20
 
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GTR8000

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Ha, it turns out that I was only posting the Phase 10 transitions, forgot to include some of the phases that recently completed. Well in any event, we can see that there are quite a few stations on the move, and so how this will effect public safety during ducting events remains to be seen.
 
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RocketNJ

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Don't forget WFDC channel 15 in Arlington, VA. Telemundo TV. That is the one that trashes the 476 - 482 band in northern NJ. I found it by connecting a digital TV to one of the antennas at a site at 7 a.m. one day. They did a controlled shut down to verify that was the offending station.

Signal level was measured at -56 dBm connected to an antenna on the tower. Strong enough to wipe out any subs on the system.

Funny Candy Company working at its best. "Oh they won't interfere. They are too far away". Yeah right.
 

mmckenna

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I just received a notification from a station in San Francisco that is making some changes. TV Channel 14. They have a permit to construct a new site on Sutro Tower and will be doing testing for a week to check for interference to users adjacent to the 450–470 band.

Never had any issues, but I don't doubt it can happen. Some of these stations are running near the million watt range, and can cause a lot of problems.
 
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RocketNJ

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BTW, there was a TV station in Philly that fired up on RF channel 15 years ago that destroyed all the 476-482 band. They got shut down pretty quick. They did it as a test, which failed miserably!
 
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kevinparrish

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Yesterday morning here in NYC the Newton, Mass Police were competing with NYPD SOD on 470.8375 MHz who both share the same frequency. . Ducting is very common but the (T-Band) TV re-pack has sure generated problems to distant LMRS users around the country. On one our company VHF simplex channels which is shared with both New York City & Washington, DC we can regularly talk base-to-base with no issues in the summer months.
 

r60

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DTV 19V-CH 10.1-4WAVYNBCPortsmouthVA10.1 WAVY NBC 2 BOUNCE 3 GET 4 CBNwas DTV 31
Thanks all. Google search reveals CH19 is a new assignment and began operating in the winter of 2020. Now that tropo season is well underway, things are starting to add up.

Channel 19 occupies 500-506 MHZ.

The Somerset County 500 P25 system is likely being impacted during band openings.

The path over water NE SW is very common from spring to fall. In fact I regularly receive the Maryland FIRST TRS sites from the Delmarva on my G5 pager. This is a 180 mile hop.

It appears that we are talking about 1kw or 1,000,000 watts from 1,000 feet over water.

Yes @RocketNJ we too now know how it feels dry from the funny candy company.
Too boot, it is starting to feel like no repeal of the 470-512 giveback will occur.
 
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GTR8000

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The T-Band giveback is a double edged sword. It would obviously be a nightmare for places like NYC to find spectrum if allowed to go forward as currently mandated by law, however it also would've benefited places like Morris County where the ducting issue is a real thorn in the side. Would've been nice to have gotten funded from the auction of T-Band to move to 700 MHz, rather than having to come up with the funding on your own. As of right now, the T-Band spectrum is pretty worthless to anyone other than public safety and business/industrial, making the whole exercise even more futile.
 

r60

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The T-Band giveback is a double edged sword. It would obviously be a nightmare for places like NYC to find spectrum if allowed to go forward as currently mandated by law, however it also would've benefited places like Morris County where the ducting issue is a real thorn in the side. Would've been nice to have gotten funded from the auction of T-Band to move to 700 MHz, rather than having to come up with the funding on your own. As of right now, the T-Band spectrum is pretty worthless to anyone other than public safety and business/industrial, making the whole exercise even more futile.
I believe you can add Somerset 500 TRS to those afflicted. New this tropo season as a result of last group TV channels moving,in this case a new Channel 19. I have heard Morris users on UTAC’s many times when the band opens and MIRS shuts down. I suspect this will hasten the demise of the 500 TRS.
 

08GMC4X4

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Morris County MIRS System had interference today on Police 1 and Police 6 at a minimum. Heard the tones go out and then dispatcher say, switch to and utilize UTAC-47 Emergency traffic only all other traffic call the police desk.
 
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