Unable to receive Motorola Type II SmartZone

[tekinozbek]

I have tried importing this site (Bell FleetNet Ontario Provincial Government Zone 2 Trunking System, Southeast Zone, Ontario) into ProScan, which includes band plans. However, after scanning for hours, I got zero hits. When I do a conventional (analog) scan, I can hear some conversations (that site is both digital & analog).

When I tune to the control channel of a site there, I get some output data, which looks something like this:
MOT 00E,1,08F8
MOT 353,0,10D0
MOT 275,1,C549

There seems to be zero information on the web with regards to what this data means except for the fact that the format is <command>,<private>,<id>

The scanner is unable to detect the bands (offset, spacing, etc.) which it should be receiving from the control channel. As a result, the MOT system with this control channel does not appear to be receive any audio (the site I'm using has both analog and digital). When I do a custom search around the frequency of that control channel (with NAC/Color Code/RAN/Area tone search enabled), I get nothing.

Given the control channel, how can I listen in to the site? Am I wrong in assuming that simply by tuning to the control channel, I should be hearing conversations (this is how I find P25 NAC channels).

 

[cg]

Program or edit the system to add the base, offset & spacing info
I found the following in a RR search:
Base Spacing Offset
141.015 15.0 380
151.7300 15.0 579
154.3200 15.0 632

 

[tekinozbek]

I have tried those with no luck. I'm wondering if that info is outdated at this point.

 

[GTR8000]

The scanner is unable to detect the bands (offset, spacing, etc.) which it should be receiving from the control channel.

Motorola 3600 systems (aka Type II) do not broadcast the band plan over the control channel. You're probably thinking of P25 systems. You'll need to enter a custom band plan into the scanner in order to track the system.

 

[tekinozbek]

I read somewhere that from the control channel, I could get the frequencies and from there determine the offset, spacing, etc.

Still unsure as to why the scanner is not receiving anything despite me having the band plan set up from RR.

 

[tvengr]

Program or edit the system to add the base, offset & spacing info
I found the following in a RR search:
Base Spacing Offset
141.015 15.0 380
151.7300 15.0 579
154.3200 15.0 632

The frequencies shown are the lower frequencies. The BCD325P2 and BCD996P2 also require an upper frequency and polarity for each of the 3 band plans. Please attach your ProScan programming file so that we can take a look at it. Click on Attach files and Open the file.

 

[tekinozbek]

I know. I did calculate the upper frequencies based on the base freq, spacing and offset. (btw this information also comes from RR when I import it into ProScan).

I've attached the proscan db I'm using.

 

[tvengr]

I don't see any errors with the programming. If you hold on the control channel frequency, you should hear the digital noise and see the system ID and TGID's displayed. What kind of signal strength are you showing? Try turning on the attenuator. Do you see the control channel frequency displayed while scanning the trunked system? If not, you may have an interference problem. Try using IFX on the system frequencies.

 

[tekinozbek]

If I hold the control channel, I do not hear any noise (nor do I see the system ID). However, ProScan "C-CH Output" tab shows some messages that looked like the ones I've mentioned above:

MOT 00E,1,08F8
MOT 353,0,10D0
MOT 275,1,C549

Then again, any digital control channel I hold (including P25) don't give me any kind of noise, though my P25 system is working well.

 

[a417]

If I hold the control channel, I do not hear any noise (nor do I see the system ID). However, ProScan "C-CH Output" tab shows some messages that
<snip>
Then again, any digital control channel I hold (including P25) don't give me any kind of noise, though my P25 system is working well.

Motorola Type II systems make a very distinct sound on their control channel. If you don't hear this when conventionally tuning a frequency that you think is a C/C...you're not recieving it.

 

[tekinozbek]

Is it possible I'm not hearing it because the tone search option is set to NAC/Color Code/RAN/Area? I do not hear P25 control channels either, yet I am receiving them.

 

[tvengr]

You don't want to be in search when listening to the control channel. If you are given the NAC/Color Code/RAN/Area option, you set the audio type to digital only. A P25 control channel frequency will quiet the noise. You should hear the noise on a Motorola control channel. Not seeing the control channel frequency displayed on the scanner screen while scanning the system indicates you are either not receiving the control channel due to poor signal strength or it is not decoding properly due to interference. You should hear a loud constant buzz while parked on the control channel frequency. While parked there, you should see the system ID and TGID's displayed. While scanning the system, press HOLD. Scroll through the frequencies until you hear the one with the loud buzz. If you don't hear that, you are out of range, the control channel is being silenced by interference, or a new control channel frequency has been added to the system, which is very unlikely. Did you try IFX on the system frequencies? The Motorola systems are quite old. Are you sure that the system is still in use?

 

[tekinozbek]

OK. You were right. I can hear that sound in the link above on the control channels. Signal strength reports 5 bars. No sys id nor any tgids though. It is possible I'm just not receiving it well enough.

Did you try IFX on the system frequencies?

Yes; no improvement.

The Motorola systems are quite old. Are you sure that the system is still in use?

I believe so. I can hear analog (and relevant) chatter on some of the frequencies in that site.

 

[tvengr]

While scanning the system, do you see the control channel frequency? If you see NFM, the control channel is not being detected.

 

[tvengr]

If you tried IFX, I don't know what else to suggest. Perhaps, Bob from ProScan will look at your file to see if he can catch something that I overlooked. If you click on Report and request that your thread be moved to the Scanner Programming Software forum, I am sure that Bob will see it.

 

[tekinozbek]

Guys, I believe that I have narrowed the issue down to the antenna.

After some experimentation (which included trying the included rubber duck antenna indoors which performed better than my antenna outdoor), I have found that the magnetic base onto which my antenna was affixed outdoors was negatively affecting the reception. As soon as I lifted the antenna off of it, the scanner started decoding the audio.

Edit: admittedly, I am using a tall CB antenna for this, but it wasn't having trouble receiving 800MHz.

 

[jtwalker]

CB is 27 mhz. If that antenna was working for 800 mhz, then it was entirely coincidental and a paper clip would have worked also.

 

[hunterca]

What Zone are you trying to receive? Zone 1 or 2. I am hearing paramedic comms here in Ottawa.

 

[a417]

Guys, I believe that I have narrowed the issue down to the antenna.
<snip>
Edit: admittedly, I am using a tall CB antenna for this, but it wasn't having trouble receiving 800MHz.

What was it attached to? Something that had a noisy electrical component attached/nearby?

 

[hunterca]

I have tried those with no luck. I'm wondering if that info is outdated at this point.

It is not outdated. It is still active. The new system will take over in 2023. Not sure if paramedics will change but OPP will be encrypted.