UNDERGROUND BURIED EARTH ANTENNAS

[Sheepdog777]

Hello Ham and Radio Enthusiasts,

This topic seems to have been a burr in the saddle of many radio professionals over the years. We use underground buried antennas in the military all the time. Depending on the mission, daily. In the Air Force we even have entire career fields which install, maintain, and decommission these systems and support infrastructure. I laugh when I see folks chiming in on forums saying it is impossible and doesn’t work. Well that’s 100% hot garbage. There may be a certain amount of impracticality, especially for the Ham who’s comfortable with their set-ups, and that’s totally cool. Isn’t freedom wonderful?

While we still have the freedom to openly discuss such topics, I’d like to start a discussion on this controversial subject. They absolutely exist at many different portions of the radio spectrum. Most who have inquired about it, or simply skimmed the wave-top know about the Low-Frequency usage used mostly in Submarine Naval and/or Mining Industry applications. However, underground buried antennas also work on VHF and UHF bands. The U.S. government, and many others, have tested and shown the capability to use these antennas for military applications. It becomes sensitive quickly to be honest.

Now for the Ham who feels a little adventurous, you may want to experiment as little. Even as an Extra Amateur, as I call myself, would not be above sticking a transmission line directly into the ground to see if anything is transmissible through the Earth directly, being a semi-infinite spherical conductor, of which all transmission lines and antennas are conductors. If not for the experimental aspect of it, but simple because of what I’ve directly experienced and because it’s what all the experts say isn’t possible. “Experts” said airplanes, parachutes, aircraft carriers, and many other things were impossible or at least impractical.

Now for the Ham on High sitting in some room with thousands of dollars of equipment hiding from their life-partners, spouses, whatever… How practical is Ham? When you can simply discuss your lower back and bowels issues ad nauseum over the internet or cell phone? Both of which were impractical at the time they were invented? Ah… how the times changes. A really Old School Ham Lord Francis Bacon once said, “Truth is the Daughter of Time, not of Authority.”

As a cop for many years I always followed the evidence wherever it leads. Why not experiment with underground buried earth antennas? If not for transmitting due to the alleged losses and inefficiencies, then how about receiving only? What different applications can be used? What are the Knowns? The Unknowns?

What are your experiences, if any with underground buried earth antennas? Have you tried them? Discuss….

If anyone has additional literature on this or related topics, please let me know and I’ll add it to this budding collection. If you’re having problems accessing it, let me know as well. Please and thank you.

UNDERGROUND BURIED EARTH ANTENNAS LIBRARY

Underground Buried Earth Antennas - Google Drive

INTEREST ITEMS: (Within Library)

Underground & Underwater Radio Antennas - 1919

Buried Antenna Performance Development Small Resonant Buried Antennas – 1974

Buried Antennas for Emergency Communications – 1967

Buried Vertically Polarized UHF Antennas – 1970

Measured Performance of UHF Antennas in Concrete – 1971

Effects of Debris on Buried UHF Antennas – 1974

ELPA 302A – Eyring Low Profile Antenna (ELPA) Covert HF Ground Cooperative Antenna

ELPA 302 A – Antenna Operations Manual

Ground Dipole – Buried Underground Antennas

Ground Radio – Free Energy Radio – Stubblefield

Grounded and Underground Antennas

Spreading and Underground Antennas – ANTENTOP – 2019

ALL NORTHRUP GRUMMAN Patents


73’s

Ryan, AE0TO (USAF SNCO Ret)

A Posse Ad Esse

o7

 

[merlin]

VLF/ELF that may work and hardly different than a towed 3/4 mile wire aft on a sub.
Loops and ferrite prove just as effective.
The ARRL antenna book goes into plenty of detail and math regarding propagation at such low frequencies.
Just because there are patents about VHF/UHF buried antennae, doesnt mean they can violate the laws physics.
Take a look at mining wireless comm's you get a better idea.

 

[Mophead]

Hello Ham and Radio Enthusiasts,

This topic seems to have been a burr in the saddle of many radio professionals over the years. We use underground buried antennas in the military all the time. Depending on the mission, daily. In the Air Force we even have entire career fields which install, maintain, and decommission these systems and support infrastructure. I laugh when I see folks chiming in on forums saying it is impossible and doesn’t work. Well that’s 100% hot garbage. There may be a certain amount of impracticality, especially for the Ham who’s comfortable with their set-ups, and that’s totally cool. Isn’t freedom wonderful?

While we still have the freedom to openly discuss such topics, I’d like to start a discussion on this controversial subject. They absolutely exist at many different portions of the radio spectrum. Most who have inquired about it, or simply skimmed the wave-top know about the Low-Frequency usage used mostly in Submarine Naval and/or Mining Industry applications. However, underground buried antennas also work on VHF and UHF bands. The U.S. government, and many others, have tested and shown the capability to use these antennas for military applications. It becomes sensitive quickly to be honest.

Now for the Ham who feels a little adventurous, you may want to experiment as little. Even as an Extra Amateur, as I call myself, would not be above sticking a transmission line directly into the ground to see if anything is transmissible through the Earth directly, being a semi-infinite spherical conductor, of which all transmission lines and antennas are conductors. If not for the experimental aspect of it, but simple because of what I’ve directly experienced and because it’s what all the experts say isn’t possible. “Experts” said airplanes, parachutes, aircraft carriers, and many other things were impossible or at least impractical.

Now for the Ham on High sitting in some room with thousands of dollars of equipment hiding from their life-partners, spouses, whatever… How practical is Ham? When you can simply discuss your lower back and bowels issues ad nauseum over the internet or cell phone? Both of which were impractical at the time they were invented? Ah… how the times changes. A really Old School Ham Lord Francis Bacon once said, “Truth is the Daughter of Time, not of Authority.”

As a cop for many years I always followed the evidence wherever it leads. Why not experiment with underground buried earth antennas? If not for transmitting due to the alleged losses and inefficiencies, then how about receiving only? What different applications can be used? What are the Knowns? The Unknowns?

What are your experiences, if any with underground buried earth antennas? Have you tried them? Discuss….

If anyone has additional literature on this or related topics, please let me know and I’ll add it to this budding collection. If you’re having problems accessing it, let me know as well. Please and thank you.

UNDERGROUND BURIED EARTH ANTENNAS LIBRARY

Underground Buried Earth Antennas - Google Drive

INTEREST ITEMS: (Within Library)

Underground & Underwater Radio Antennas - 1919

Buried Antenna Performance Development Small Resonant Buried Antennas – 1974

Buried Antennas for Emergency Communications – 1967

Buried Vertically Polarized UHF Antennas – 1970

Measured Performance of UHF Antennas in Concrete – 1971

Effects of Debris on Buried UHF Antennas – 1974

ELPA 302A – Eyring Low Profile Antenna (ELPA) Covert HF Ground Cooperative Antenna

ELPA 302 A – Antenna Operations Manual

Ground Dipole – Buried Underground Antennas

Ground Radio – Free Energy Radio – Stubblefield

Grounded and Underground Antennas

Spreading and Underground Antennas – ANTENTOP – 2019

ALL NORTHRUP GRUMMAN Patents


73’s

Ryan, AE0TO (USAF SNCO Ret)

A Posse Ad Esse

o7

Very informative post, thank you. BTW, is that you in your avatar carrying the "football?"

 

[Sheepdog777]

Very informative post, thank you. BTW, is that you in your avatar carrying the "football?"

Thank You. Just an Interesting Topic.

Not me in the Avatar but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express with one... lol. Used to work in that arena.

 

[vagrant]

Experimenting is a good thing. I encourage you to test your idea of "...sticking a transmission line directly into the ground to see if anything is transmissible through the Earth directly..." I and others look forward to your results. I have never tried that, but I have experimented with vertical and horizontal polarization, along with extreme elevation differences using five watts and less. Based on my own testing, I will continue to deploy my antennas above ground and average terrain, as my directly "on ground" antenna testing worked, but it was not that efficient.

Ultimately, antenna efficiency matters to my operating methods whether transceiving, or just receiving. Compromised antenna efficiency is what many of us deal with considering our respective constraints and the scope of a project.

 

[Sheepdog777]

Experimenting is a good thing. I encourage you to test your idea of "...sticking a transmission line directly into the ground to see if anything is transmissible through the Earth directly..." I and others look forward to your results. I have never tried that, but I have experimented with vertical and horizontal polarization, along with extreme elevation differences using five watts and less. Based on my own testing, I will continue to deploy my antennas above ground and average terrain, as my directly "on ground" antenna testing worked, but it was not that efficient.

Ultimately, antenna efficiency matters to my operating methods whether transceiving, or just receiving. Compromised antenna efficiency is what many of us deal with considering our respective constraints and the scope of a project.

I am going to do the direct connect with two HTs at a minimum, just to see. The Earth is a giant conductor so let's see what happens. Obviously I'm not advocating throwing out the baby with the bath water on proven science, but I've been a Tesla nut ever since I went to the HAARP facility up in Gakona, AK.

Spending 9 years in Colorado Springs was a very informative experience after being in the D.C. area before that. You would find the Buried Vertically Polarized UHF Antenna Study by FitzGerrell in the Library informative on the low power transmission distances Earth to Aircraft. One of my attached photos is the conclusion of that study in 1970. Nuclear Triad Related...

 

[prcguy]

Funny you should mention this topic, I've been playing with on the ground antennas for some time now. I originally started when some friends acquired models of the Eyring antennas and I finally got my own low power single dipole model to play with. I've since found the 500w version and came close to buying every model the Eyring ever made from a guy at the Dayton Hamstervention but I didn't want to invest that much $$.

Anyway the single dipole low power version ELPA 301A actually works and I've compared it to several elevated multiband dipoles like the ZS6BKW and 80m OCFD in the So Cal desert on 160 through 17m. My results varied greatly on the band, band conditions and apparently the direction to the other station. At best the 301A on 80 and 40m was about 5-6dB below the elevated multiband antennas in an inverted V configuration with the apex about 30ft high.

I found and the instructions say the best results will be with about half the Eyring antenna elevated a foot or two above ground using insulated stakes or plants and it also has some effect on the VSWR. The 301A model also outperformed any other dipole I've used while camping on 160m hands down. The best I could ever do with a conventional dipole while in the So Cal desert was a 160/80m trap dipole which was huge with the apex about 35ft off the ground. The Eyring 301A was operating slightly out of its range but still worked better than the tuned low dipole on 160m.

I have yet to test the 500w version but results should be identical except I can feed it with my portable 500w SGC amplifier and that will bring up my transmit signals to probably better than a low elevated multiband antenna fed with 100w since the Eyring was about 5-6dB below those and when fed with 500w it should be equal to or better than the elevated dipoles.

I've also used a lot of other laying on the ground antennas from just throwing out 30ft of wire on the lawn at work, connecting to my 20w PRC-138 HF manpack and making a lot of surprising contacts on 40m. I also tried a home brew Eyring style antenna using both a 4:1 and military 9:1 balun and the same size wire elements but the factory made Eyring worked slightly better. I remember reading about the Eyring balun ratio in early patents for these antennas and I also measured the ratio of mine at one time being around a 9:1 ratio, but there is more testing needed to see why the factory Eyring works better.

I also remember talking to a guy on HF in the past that had actual buried antennas. I don't remember his antenna configuration but I think it was resonant dipole size and he had placed it in conduit several feet underground. His signal seemed ok and not much different from others on the band that day but he didn't have another antenna to compare with so I can't say exactly how well his underground antenna was working. But the fact I heard him at normal levels for that day is saying a lot.

Here is a picture of my Eyring ELPA 301A and my 500w version is buried in the garage too deep to find at the moment.

 

[w2xq]

From the February 1935 issue of Short Wave Craft... 😀

 

[Sheepdog777]

VLF/ELF that may work and hardly different than a towed 3/4 mile wire aft on a sub.
Loops and ferrite prove just as effective.
The ARRL antenna book goes into plenty of detail and math regarding propagation at such low frequencies.
Just because there are patents about VHF/UHF buried antennae, doesnt mean they can violate the laws physics.
Take a look at mining wireless comm's you get a better idea.

Thanks for the input Merlin. I would recommend you look at the link I provided with just a smidgen of overall resources on the topic. Unfortunately many more extensive resources are difficult to come by and/or still classified.

Leaky Feeders and Mining Comms are in there, as well as low watt transmission of buried VHF and UHF vertically polarized antennas. As retired crusty military bubba I've seen many a device or process which broke the laws of physics as most understand them. The whole EAM ELF and Nuclear Triad process and communications is "Old Hat" to me.

Probably the most interesting thing I've come across is the articles from the Electrical Experimenter (March 1919) with the early efforts of a Mr. James H. Rogers and how he conceived the Underground System he invented. He explained that from the very first study of the method of transmitting radio signals by means of an elevated antenna, the question constantly presented itself to his mind - "If 50 units of power are passed into the aerial, then what becomes of the equal amount of energy which passes into the ground?" This is exactly my mental thought as I was studying for my Amateur Extra Ticket.

He became so obsessed with his conundrum that he finally asked several prominent radio savants this question. What do you suppose the answer was? - "It is dissipated in the form of heat in the ground.", they answered. But still Mr. Rogers thought they were wrong and now he has proved it. Another early idea of his in the theoretical aspect of radio communication was as follows, and very logical it was too, as you will agree: He held that if the outer crust is a conductor, and the surrounding atmospheric envelope is the insulator, then how infinitely better must the former be for the transmission of any form of electric current.

Again, this is what entered my mind when studying. If the Ionosphere is a conductor that works as a wave guide between the insulator/dielectric of air, then since transmission line theory is extremely similar to electroacoustic theory and act as a waveguide below the surface? Further, with a transmission line being a conductor and antennas being a conductor then why can't the Earth itself become the semi-infinite antenna.

With the first law of thermodynamics being energy can neither be created nor destroyed, the Earth transmission loss goes somewhere. If trees directly tapped as amazing receiving antennas as well as buried water pipes to receive shortwave broadcasts from the other side of the globe, then there's more to the story. If the center voice coil of a speaker is a conductor that mechanically converts voice/sound modulation into lossy air, then sound moves through solids even better. Why not a electromagnetic AC driver coil making the Earth or localized portion a frequency speaker?

Being a Tesla fanatic, I see the Reversal of Maxwell's Equations as a wireless means of transmitting electricity, akin to a rectenna.

Anyways I'm now neck deep in my wild thoughts, and I'm no Physics Janitor...

I have much to learn. I value and respect your perspective.

73's Merlin
Ryan, AE0TO
o7

 

[Sheepdog777]

Funny you should mention this topic, I've been playing with on the ground antennas for some time now. I originally started when some friends acquired models of the Eyring antennas and I finally got my own low power single dipole model to play with. I've since found the 500w version and came close to buying every model the Eyring ever made from a guy at the Dayton Hamstervention but I didn't want to invest that much $$.

Anyway the single dipole low power version ELPA 301A actually works and I've compared it to several elevated multiband dipoles like the ZS6BKW and 80m OCFD in the So Cal desert on 160 through 17m. My results varied greatly on the band, band conditions and apparently the direction to the other station. At best the 301A on 80 and 40m was about 5-6dB below the elevated multiband antennas in an inverted V configuration with the apex about 30ft high.

I found and the instructions say the best results will be with about half the Eyring antenna elevated a foot or two above ground using insulated stakes or plants and it also has some effect on the VSWR. The 301A model also outperformed any other dipole I've used while camping on 160m hands down. The best I could ever do with a conventional dipole while in the So Cal desert was a 160/80m trap dipole which was huge with the apex about 35ft off the ground. The Eyring 301A was operating slightly out of its range but still worked better than the tuned low dipole on 160m.

I have yet to test the 500w version but results should be identical except I can feed it with my portable 500w SGC amplifier and that will bring up my transmit signals to probably better than a low elevated multiband antenna fed with 100w since the Eyring was about 5-6dB below those and when fed with 500w it should be equal to or better than the elevated dipoles.

I've also used a lot of other laying on the ground antennas from just throwing out 30ft of wire on the lawn at work, connecting to my 20w PRC-138 HF manpack and making a lot of surprising contacts on 40m. I also tried a home brew Eyring style antenna using both a 4:1 and military 9:1 balun and the same size wire elements but the factory made Eyring worked slightly better. I remember reading about the Eyring balun ratio in early patents for these antennas and I also measured the ratio of mine at one time being around a 9:1 ratio, but there is more testing needed to see why the factory Eyring works better.

I also remember talking to a guy on HF in the past that had actual buried antennas. I don't remember his antenna configuration but I think it was resonant dipole size and he had placed it in conduit several feet underground. His signal seemed ok and not much different from others on the band that day but he didn't have another antenna to compare with so I can't say exactly how well his underground antenna was working. But the fact I heard him at normal levels for that day is saying a lot.

Here is a picture of my Eyring ELPA 301A and my 500w version is buried in the garage too deep to find at the moment.

View attachment 138661View attachment 138662

Um,

Jealous... You probably saw the ELPA 302A stuff in the ad hoc Library. I absolutely loved using these on the old man pack PRC-77 and 117s. I do remember these working best about 2 ft off the ground, but for the tactical operations we buried them in the sandiest soil we could muster. Not that we couldn't cut a resonant from comm wire and interlace them through trees with a directional switch, but we used these effectively buried on a hill pointing towards Command Posts 30-70 miles distant above 120 MHZ and 310+, we also coordinated Air/Helo near 240 and 360ish MHz. For my early days intrasquad we used the ole' PRC 68/128 ScopeShields 30-88 MHz on rolling freqs with field control using the ELPA and similar antennas.

I love the fact you're able and are using this on the HF realm and makes absolute sense to me seeing it work so well in the field. We weren't working at HF distances for our particular operations at the time, but definitely within VHF/UHF Ham repeater ranges.

For the reverse engineering of their ELPA/Eyring Balun, I did include the 302A Operations Manual which I'll try to attach to this post.

It funny you mentioned the PRC-138, used many Harris Radios through the years, having kicked off and closing out both wars. But my last 4 years we lived in the Southeast Colorado Springs area and had a Harris Radio Facility less than 2 blocks away from us, down near Bradley Rd which heads out to Schriever SFB, basically behind Peterson SFB (Weird to not use AFB), East Commercial Gate. Our neighbors and us always enjoyed coming home to our open garages....

You brought the heat and ammo on this post! Love it!

Sorry if you already have this...
Added: File too Big:

http://www.radiomanual.info/schemi/Surplus_Accessories/Eyring_ELPA-302A_Broadband_Dipole_antenna_user_1990.pdf

73's
Ryan, AE0TO
o7

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

This is very interesting, and at first I thought it was an early April First article like the ARRL is so obsessed with. I will read on, down the rabbit hole!

 

[GlobalNorth]

Very informative post, thank you. BTW, is that you in your avatar carrying the "football?"

The Officer carrying the 'football' is a US Army officer.

 

[G7RUX]

To those who don't think it will work, get some wire buried and load it up and see how it goes...depending on your ground conditions this may be easy or it may be difficult but I suspect you might be pleasantly surprised...

 

[Sheepdog777]

The Officer carrying the 'football' is a US Army officer.

The Services Rotate Field Grade Officers.

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

Years ago I got the chance to visit the deep hard rock Black Cloud mine located outside of Leadville Colorado. This mine had a main shaft that dropped straight down over a thousand feet with many, diverse side drifts, etc.
The mine manager showed me around, taking me into the hoist building where's housed the huge winch that is the main highway for everything going up and down that shaft. An engineer sat on an elevated, semi enclosed platform operating the massive machinery- and I was mesmerized watching the enormous take up drum spindling cable up and down the shaft--- staying well clear of spinning fly wheels and 600 volt open electric motor contacts.

While watch the engineer at work *** I heard a squelch break and a voice come over a radio next to him. He answered the call and the winch began to move.

I asked my guide-

"He has a radio ?... and he is talking to the men way down that shaft ?"

"Yes, That's how we communicate. In the olden days we used a series of bell rings to indicate what he needed to do. Today its by radio."
"The radio reaches down through out the mine"

That was all I learned about the shaft communications that day.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________---



Fast forward to 2012.
The mine was deactivated and I received a call that if I wanted to tour the mine again I could, before everything was removed.
I love opportunities like this, and quickly took them up on this offer.
.........I and my friend Barbi were allowed the freedom to explore the site.

One of the first thing I wanted to check out was that radio in the hoist room.
---- it was a Motorola something-or-other transceiver. On the wall above it was posted a copy of their FCC license--- 150 MHz High Band. There was a coax cable running into the shaft..... a 'leaky line' radiator perhaps. The yawn'ing pit gave us the creeps and exploration stopped at the shaft's collar.
Never the less, I remained curious about this radio system and just how a high band radio worked through out a mine, with workings measuring not in feet but in miles.

We concluded that the drifts and shafts were actually acting as wave guides. What frequency v.s rock strata v.s drift sizes propagates high band VHF ?

The AC power was on throughout the mine and I couldn't resist turning on the transceiver.

"Hello down there " -- picking up the mic.

"What would you have done if some voice answer'd you ?" said my friend

_______________





.............this was the tailing pond of the Black Hawk mine (that's not the Black btw)---Pretty, no?----
Iowa Gulch, Alt ~11,500 feet




______________________________________________________________________________________________________________


***There is a strict safety rule posted as you approach the lift engineer's station, something like "Its a violation of State Law to speak to the operator at any time" --- you do not want him distracted while he is hauling men, rock and machinery up a thousand foot-plus shaft !



.

 

[MUTNAV]

Just some short thoughts...

Carlsbad cavern has an elevator shaft that is about 750 feet, maybe someone could experiment with it.

As far as the subject of burying the cable, I suppose its performance would be dependent on the conductivity of the ground. mostly moisture I would assume would be the problem... When I imagine it, I think of soft soil that is basically compressed dry ground, should be better at times than air, which can saturate with humidity, although I've never heard anyone complain about the air being too humid for good communications.

Maybe changes in impedance causes problems?

Although discontinuity in the soils conductivity I imagine could cause problems.

As a side note, I think Bob Bruninga (of APRS fame) at one point used a single electric wire to get power to a remote radio at least a hundred feet away (no return wire, just a single conductor).

Thanks
Joel

 

[Sheepdog777]

Years ago I got the chance to visit the deep hard rock Black Cloud mine located outside of Leadville Colorado. This mine had a main shaft that dropped straight down over a thousand feet with many, diverse side drifts, etc.
The mine manager showed me around, taking me into the hoist building where's housed the huge winch that is the main highway for everything going up and down that shaft. An engineer sat on an elevated, semi enclosed platform operating the massive machinery- and I was mesmerized watching the enormous take up drum spindling cable up and down the shaft--- staying well clear of spinning fly wheels and 600 volt open electric motor contacts.

While watch the engineer at work *** I heard a squelch break and a voice come over a radio next to him. He answered the call and the winch began to move.

I asked my guide-

"He has a radio ?... and he is talking to the men way down that shaft ?"

"Yes, That's how we communicate. In the olden days we used a series of bell rings to indicate what he needed to do. Today its by radio."
"The radio reaches down through out the mine"

That was all I learned about the shaft communications that day.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________---



Fast forward to 2012.
The mine was deactivated and I received a call that if I wanted to tour the mine again I could, before everything was removed.
I love opportunities like this, and quickly took them up on this offer.
.........I and my friend Barbi were allowed the freedom to explore the site.

One of the first thing I wanted to check out was that radio in the hoist room.
---- it was a Motorola something-or-other transceiver. On the wall above it was posted a copy of their FCC license--- 150 MHz High Band. There was a coax cable running into the shaft..... a 'leaky line' radiator perhaps. The yawn'ing pit gave us the creeps and exploration stopped at the shaft's collar.
Never the less, I remained curious about this radio system and just how a high band radio worked through out a mine, with workings measuring not in feet but in miles.

We concluded that the drifts and shafts were actually acting as wave guides. What frequency v.s rock strata v.s drift sizes propagates high band VHF ?

The AC power was on throughout the mine and I couldn't resist turning on the transceiver.

"Hello down there " -- picking up the mic.

"What would you have done if some voice answer'd you ?" said my friend

_______________



View attachment 138846

.............this was the tailing pond of the Black Hawk mine (that's not the Black btw)---Pretty, no?----
Iowa Gulch, Alt ~11,500 feet




______________________________________________________________________________________________________________


***There is a strict safety rule posted as you approach the lift engineer's station, something like "Its a violation of State Law to speak to the operator at any time" --- you do not want him distracted while he is hauling men, rock and machinery up a thousand foot-plus shaft !



.

That's freakin awesome! I was stationed at the U.S. Air Force Academy for 9 years and absolutely loved Colorado! Leadville is a beautiful place and they have some really cool Horse Towed Ski Racing events up there on the main drag. Being in Alaska for my first assignment made me appreciate the raw natural beauty but Colorado doesn't have the polar blackout and Colorado Springs averages 300 sunny days a year, but you get 4 seasons in one day, especially in the microclimates at the foot of the Rockies. We loved to go up to Cripple Creek and Victor, CO where there is an Active Gold Mine. We stayed at the Victor Hotel where we were greeted by a host in a Kilt... They had the only operational "Birdcage" elevator in the state at that time. It was haunted, as the room we stayed in was a Morgue during what I seem to remember was the Spanish Flu... not 100% sure. We enjoyed it because we hand not experienced that type phenomena since I was stationed at Andrews AFB, MD. The D.C. area is rife with such energy.

Having worked in deep buried underground facilities that use RF for surface communication for continuity of government operations as well as mission operations, Mount Weather, Raven Rock, Nuclear Missile Security Operations, etc etc is one of the reasons I created the library of resources to edge the inquisitive reader to "Dig Deeper" into the subject. Uncle Sugar fenced off this subject/arena long ago, if not for but the main purpose of Direction Finding intelligence operations aka "Huff Duff", again in the Library.
Additionally, the whole mine comms radio systems have been around for quite some time, however many are the leaky lines, and some have mini repeaters depending on the size. But in say a facility such as Cheyenne Mountain lodged in piezoelectric quartz laden granite and metamorphic rock, radio works amazingly well from inside out and vise versa. Waveguides are another pet subject of mine, as well as some of my other posts for very fundamental questions... which I've seemed to have agitated some folks who pull the muh models show... and who've never heard of the late George Box. Oh well, I support freedom and that applies to all levels of experience and thought.

We're going to do a lot of camping this year and we'll be deep in some the oldest mountains in the world in the Ozarks of southern Missouri and northern Arkansas, so I'm going to be experimenting with my Underground Antennas I'm building. I want to get a grassroots movement going for folks who want to experiment in this realm and not shriek out their MMANA Muh Models!!! I want to get a log going of global hams who want to do something other than the standard fare of rag chew, which there is nothing wrong with. Even perhaps have SDR Gurus playing catch as well to document and map, if they actually Rx anything. But first I want to experiment with a few ideas I've had for a long time.

I've been a Nikola Tesla (As well as the Band...) freak ever since I witnessed an EMP over the Chugiak Mountains at approximately 95 Km AGL @ 244 Deg from Anchorage, AK in 1996 that shut down the entire city and every vehicle on the roads. The next day in the newspaper they covered it with a "Blown Transformer" story... Huh... I was off duty with another USAF Security Forces member whose truck turned off and he actually threw up from the show of what we'd witnessed. Essentially, it started as an arc welding bright sparkling pin-prick about two hands width above the mountain profile. It expanded out with concentric rings with fingerlets of lightning connecting all the rings from the central "Blue Sun" It swelled and compressed a few times then BOOM! It shrunk down to the center and blew outward in a distributed electronic mist. All the lights for the electric grid shut off as well as every vehicle, to include my buddy's brand new truck, shut off. Folks got out of their vehicles and began asking WTF was that?!? Lots of Walmart Salutes (Shrug) occurred and some folks became nauseous. After few minutes folks began trying to start their vehicles. Eventually, about 30 mins, folks were able to start their vehicles, but several wouldn't and we all helped to push them off the 6 lane road. The city grid came back up in fits and spurts. Included a couple poor early google earth recreations of the experience. Most of the Tech came from Tesla's work retrieved by none other than the Physicist John Trump, the Uncle of POTUS 45, and one of the Lead Radar scientists out of Roswell, AF, NM, with the 509th Bomb Group/Wing of which, I retired from at Whiteman AFB, up the road a piece...

Later on when I moved up in rank, duties, and security levels I eventually made it out to the HAARP facility in Gakona, AK as a few other locations. I'm not saying that everyone dump their $10,000 +Towers, but when folks seemed to have forget how the Telegraphy system worked with the grounding, and all grounding improves... Um... Rx/Tx... Then I honestly believe it is where the child of EM or let's call it AC... is created between the positive charge and negative charges... The interface, skin, matter phase change, dielectrics vs conductors...waveguides... Anyways just my inklings and ponderings.

Thanks for sharing your experiences, our youngest daughter of 5 and mom to 5 of our 15 grandkids still live in the Springs. We're going to make it back out that way this year unless everything goes to pot. I still need to get back to Eagle County where my Elk hunting and Trout fishing spot is out at Ruedi Reservoir and Red Table Mountain. Absolutely stunning area and driving from Glenwood Springs to Basalt, CO on out is live traveling through Middle Earth...

Funny thing, while researching something related but different I came across the G-Line Antennas the day after your post about them. I hope that one pans out, and I've got it saved for when we get our country homestead.

"Truth is the daughter of time, not authority"
~ Sir Francis "Muh Ham" Bacon

73's

Ryan, AE0TO
o7

 

[Sheepdog777]

Just some short thoughts...

Carlsbad cavern has an elevator shaft that is about 750 feet, maybe someone could experiment with it.

As far as the subject of burying the cable, I suppose its performance would be dependent on the conductivity of the ground. mostly moisture I would assume would be the problem... When I imagine it, I think of soft soil that is basically compressed dry ground, should be better at times than air, which can saturate with humidity, although I've never heard anyone complain about the air being too humid for good communications.

Maybe changes in impedance causes problems?

Although discontinuity in the soils conductivity I imagine could cause problems.

As a side note, I think Bob Bruninga (of APRS fame) at one point used a single electric wire to get power to a remote radio at least a hundred feet away (no return wire, just a single conductor).

Thanks
Joel

You're correct, fun elevator! We're going to likely revisit Carlsbad this year as I need a few more Alien T-Shirts from Roswell... What's a USAF Security guy who retired from the 509th Bomb Wing with Big Black Triangles getting alien shirts 4?... Lol.

High Strangeness aside... Dryer soils tend to work better, which also supports my thinking of the interaction layer/zone, skin depth is the actual region where the magic occurs.

I think it also needs be the same medium or phase of matter, only along analogy lines of Polarization matches. i.e. Two Underground Antennas might work better than Air to Ground or Ground to Air, at least at depth and not at the surface which has been proven to work. (See Library Documents)

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

.

Want a very simple, interesting, competitor to all this Electromagnetic underground communication ?

Know what this is and how it works?

---------Grins





Black Cloud Mine


Lauri

 

[prcguy]

.

Want a very simple, interesting, competitor to all this Electromagnetic underground communication ?

Know what this is and how it works?

---------Grins



View attachment 138892

Black Cloud Mine


Lauri

Air horns?