Unencrypted traffic for high security events on statewide interop

[hruskacha]

Trump visited Grand rapids Michigan recently and I noticed that state police and other security were on a clear statewide talkgroup that is streamed to broadcastify.

I'm sure the secret service has their own encrypted radios, and I did confirm that RIDs from the two clear statewide event channels did also use an encrypted channel. However, the topics discussed on the clear channels were still seemingly sensitive enough that I honestly don't think it should be broadcasted online.

They discussed locations to be searched, conversations with the TOC, Bearcats, escorts, etc.

How should this be addressed? There's no certain way to know what events use what talkgroups and when. I'm all for transparency and access, but I also understand the concept of encryption and when it is most appropriate, especially given recent incidents....

Should there be a way to selectively censor that kind of traffic from broadcastify?

 

[AB5ID]

How should this be addressed?

By the agencies that are broadcasting in the clear.

 

[tglendye]

...
How should this be addressed? ...

I understand your concerns, but it probably shouldn't be addressed in an open forum.

 

[AJAT]

If the agencies had access to encrypted coms and decided not to use them I guess they decided the info passed was not sensitive enough. It is up to the agencies to use proper radio coms. Anybody with a scanner can listen, being on Broadcastify has nothing to do with it.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Trump visited Grand rapids Michigan recently and I noticed that state police and other security were on a clear statewide talkgroup that is streamed to broadcastify.

I'm sure the secret service has their own encrypted radios, and I did confirm that RIDs from the two clear statewide event channels did also use an encrypted channel. However, the topics discussed on the clear channels were still seemingly sensitive enough that I honestly don't think it should be broadcasted online.

They discussed locations to be searched, conversations with the TOC, Bearcats, escorts, etc.

How should this be addressed? There's no certain way to know what events use what talkgroups and when. I'm all for transparency and access, but I also understand the concept of encryption and when it is most appropriate, especially given recent incidents....

Should there be a way to selectively censor that kind of traffic from broadcastify?

Sayeth Uniden 5:36 "And if your receiver causes you to sin, turn it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your radios than that the whole airwaves go into E land”

 

[wx9svr]

Sayeth Uniden 5:36 "And if your receiver causes you to sin, turn it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your radios than that the whole airwaves go into E land”

Amen
😞
🙏

 

[hazrat8990]

Truth is that all of the agencies involved were probably on their own TG and dispatch patched all of the TG's together onto a mutual aid/interop one. I've heard this happen locally when a pretty significant event was going on and my neighboring county's encrypted tac channel was patched with highway patrol onto a mutual aid TG that was in the clear.

 

[drdispatch]

It amazes me that agencies will request a statewide event talkgroup when they have plenty of local or regional talkgroups that sit unused for months or even years. Ever since my county switched to the statewide trunked system (and went encrypted, to boot) they have requested and received a statewide event talkgroup for the week of the county fair. The county fair....

 

[n0esc]

It amazes me that agencies will request a statewide event talkgroup when they have plenty of local or regional talkgroups that sit unused for months or even years. Ever since my county switched to the statewide trunked system (and went encrypted, to boot) they have requested and received a statewide event talkgroup for the week of the county fair. The county fair....

I'll take a stab that this comes part and parcel with infighting between counties and the statewide system and how radios get programmed. Probably don't have enough radios to go around for the various volunteers that help with the fair, so they borrow statewide cache radios to use, but those aren't programmed with local or sadly maybe even regional TGs. Or you have a case where volunteers aren't allowed by policy to have access to radios with any encrypted TGs, so again you're left stranded with a radio that can't talk to the local agencies working the fair without picking a TG that all radios have access to. Sometimes it's stupid and can be made to work, and sometimes it's just stupid.

 

[drdispatch]

I'll take a stab that this comes part and parcel with infighting between counties and the statewide system and how radios get programmed. Probably don't have enough radios to go around for the various volunteers that help with the fair, so they borrow statewide cache radios to use, but those aren't programmed with local or sadly maybe even regional TGs. Or you have a case where volunteers aren't allowed by policy to have access to radios with any encrypted TGs, so again you're left stranded with a radio that can't talk to the local agencies working the fair without picking a TG that all radios have access to. Sometimes it's stupid and can be made to work, and sometimes it's just stupid.

That's a fair point (no pun intended).
But in our case, the volunteers working with the county sheriff on the fairgrounds were members of CERT. They brought their own comms and had someone in the command post to act as liason.
The traffic involved didn't necessarily need to be encrypted, but why tie up a statewide resource?

 

[David628]

Mutual Aid Channels (MAC) and Interoperability channels are in the clear for a reason. So every agency on the system regardless of encryption capabilities can communicate. If they choose to abuse the MAC or Interoperability channels for tactical ops that’s on them, not the feed providers. They do it all the time in CO. They have the means to encrypt radios and if they are too lazy to do so so be it.

 

[egftechman]

I heard there was a notice sent out to agencies in many states indicating that many of them have the statewide tac talkgroups mis-configured to allow un-encrypted transmissions.

 

[Napalm]

It's up to the streamer. I took the proactive step of letting RR know one of "my" talkgroups needed to be a LAW TAC instead of a multi TAC. Law tac channels are available to node owners only and not the public. The TG in question was used by every agency in my county (20+ PDs) for stolen car saturation operations. It doesn't need to be out there and while the agencies can use crypto it's easier for the county to run it in the clear.

 

[krokus]

It amazes me that agencies will request a statewide event talkgroup when they have plenty of local or regional talkgroups that sit unused for months or even years. Ever since my county switched to the statewide trunked system (and went encrypted, to boot) they have requested and received a statewide event talkgroup for the week of the county fair. The county fair....

I just found this thread, and can give some insight for MPSCS, which similar aspects might carry over to other large systems.

If they have units participating from other parts of the state, their radios are not likely to have the local TGs programmed. Also, any of their home area TGs will not work on that tower/site, as most are geographically limited to one ring of towers around their home county. All of the radios programmed for MPSCS have the statewide TGs included, and it is a simple request to get those activated.

 

[RayAir]

That's a fair point (no pun intended).
But in our case, the volunteers working with the county sheriff on the fairgrounds were members of CERT. They brought their own comms and had someone in the command post to act as liason.
The traffic involved didn't necessarily need to be encrypted, but why tie up a statewide resource?

Cause that's what MPSCS is good at.
Having a bunch of talk groups on the system that shouldn't even be on there, tying up resources (e.g- MTA, CMEN tgs, Consumers, DTE).