Uniden 780 XLT with UCAN 800 mhz Rebanded

[jonlwright]

Hi everyone. I have been updating my Uniden 780 xlt for the new UCAN reband. I though I was successfully trunking DCSO but it doesn's seem to work as well as it did prior to the reband. This may have something to do with preveous threads of creating a "Custom Band Plan for Rebanded Systems?"
Does my 780 XLT need a new band plan?

This is what I have found on the custom banding for the 780 xlt:





Your BC780XLT has a build in bandplan. This means that when you enter a new frequency into your scanner the mode and step will be selected from a pre-programmed list.
For your convenience, ARC780 also has a build in bandplan.
When you enter a new frequency in the software the mode and step are automatically selected.

You can easily change the software bandplan.
The zipfile you downloaded contains an example custom bandplan called 780plan.dat.

How can you use and change a custom bandplan?

Copy the file 780plan.dat from the zipfile to the directory where you installed ARC780.
Open 780plan.dat with a text editor.
The default file looks like this:

FR25 MD2 ST0
FR88 MD1 ST6
FR108 MD2 ST4
FR137 MD3 ST0
FR146 MD3 ST2
FR174 MD1 ST5
FR225 MD2 ST5
FR400 MD3 ST2


'mode: ( MD ) 0=FM 1=WFM 2=AM 3=NFM
'step: ( ST ) 0=5.0 1=7.5 2=10.0 3=12.5 4=25.0 5=50.0 6=100.0

Every line contains a frequency, mode and step.
Example: a frequency of 140.000 MHz will get mode 3 ( = Am ) and step 0 ( = 5 kHz).
If you like to add a frequency start point of 138 MHz with mode AM and step 100 kHz add the following line:
FR138 MD2 ST6
A line must contain a frequency, mode and step. You must use FR, MD and ST.
Save the file as 780plan.dat and restart ARC780.
In the software setup select 'Custom Bandplan'. ARC780 will now use your personal bandplan.
The bandplan file can contain a maximum of 50 lines.
You don't need to sort the frequencies. Just add or remove lines with a text editor.
When you use a custom bandplan please make sure that you use Advanced Frequency Upload in the software setup!

This above information does not seem to relate to the info provided by qlajlu. I'm not sure where to go from here. Any ideas?

 

[DickH]

Hi everyone. I have been updating my Uniden 780 xlt for the new UCAN reband. I though I was successfully trunking DCSO but it doesn's seem to work as well as it did prior to the reband. This may have something to do with preveous threads of creating a "Custom Band Plan for Rebanded Systems?"
Does my 780 XLT need a new band plan?

This is what I have found on the custom banding for the 780 xlt:





Your BC780XLT has a build in bandplan. This means that when you enter a new frequency into your scanner the mode and step will be selected from a pre-programmed list.
For your convenience, ARC780 also has a build in bandplan.
When you enter a new frequency in the software the mode and step are automatically selected.

You can easily change the software bandplan.
The zipfile you downloaded contains an example custom bandplan called 780plan.dat.

How can you use and change a custom bandplan?

Copy the file 780plan.dat from the zipfile to the directory where you installed ARC780.
Open 780plan.dat with a text editor.
The default file looks like this:

FR25 MD2 ST0
FR88 MD1 ST6
FR108 MD2 ST4
FR137 MD3 ST0
FR146 MD3 ST2
FR174 MD1 ST5
FR225 MD2 ST5
FR400 MD3 ST2


'mode: ( MD ) 0=FM 1=WFM 2=AM 3=NFM
'step: ( ST ) 0=5.0 1=7.5 2=10.0 3=12.5 4=25.0 5=50.0 6=100.0

Every line contains a frequency, mode and step.
Example: a frequency of 140.000 MHz will get mode 3 ( = Am ) and step 0 ( = 5 kHz).
If you like to add a frequency start point of 138 MHz with mode AM and step 100 kHz add the following line:
FR138 MD2 ST6
A line must contain a frequency, mode and step. You must use FR, MD and ST.
Save the file as 780plan.dat and restart ARC780.
In the software setup select 'Custom Bandplan'. ARC780 will now use your personal bandplan.
The bandplan file can contain a maximum of 50 lines.
You don't need to sort the frequencies. Just add or remove lines with a text editor.
When you use a custom bandplan please make sure that you use Advanced Frequency Upload in the software setup!

This above information does not seem to relate to the info provided by qlajlu. I'm not sure where to go from here. Any ideas?

Try this:
FR851 MD0 (or 3) ST4

This is just a guess based on other info., but it won't cost you anything to try it.
The new rebanded freqs. that are a problem are from 851.000 in 25kHz steps. According to the instructions you got, those values I gave you ought to work.
Let us know if it works.

 

[qlajlu]

Welcome to the Utah Forum of RR.com​

jonlwright!​

Unfortunately your Uniden BC780XLT is no longer able to trunk-track anything from Site 002 Davis County Simo, regardless of the instructions that have been given you by DickH.

Rebanding was mandated by the FCC with its goal being to lower all public service frequencies by 15 MHz. At the same time, the FCC required all the frequencies be squeezed in a narrower band which required using frequencies between the typical ones being used before. All of those new frequencies begin with 851, 852, and/or 853, and they all have a "0" in the fourth decimal place of the frequency. All of Davis County's frequencies are of these "new" frequencies and cannot be accessed by older trunk-tracking scanners if they cannot be upgraded. The 780 cannot be upgraded. I have two sitting on my desk as I write this so I am speaking from first hand knowledge. Also see the RR Wiki article.

Now, you can enter all of Davis County's frequencies as conventional frequencies and you will be able to scan them as conventional frequencies, but any tracking of conversations will be entirely coincidental.

(You can read more about the Davis County Rebanding here. Pay particular attention to post #21.)

The trunking tables in the 780s are the old default tables and cannot be edited because the 780 cannot accept firmware upgrades. BUT the 780 is not useless. It can still scan other Motorola 800 MHz II SmartZone systems and most of UCAN's Utah Sites with an approximately 20% ~ 80% trunk-tracking rate depending on the frequencies used by the site. Only those frequencies I have named above cannot be "heard."

The 780 can track ALL of Salt Lake City's TRS (AC33 System) and the SL Airport's TRS (System 3521) because rebanding did not apply to them since all of their frequencies are under the threshold requiring rebanding.

 

[DickH]

Welcome to the Utah Forum of RR.com​

jonlwright!​

Unfortunately your Uniden BC780XLT is no longer able to trunk-track anything from Site 002 Davis County Simo, regardless of the instructions that have been given you by DickH.

Rebanding was mandated by the FCC with its goal being to lower all public service frequencies by 15 MHz. At the same time, the FCC required all the frequencies be squeezed in a narrower band which required using frequencies between the typical ones being used before. All of those new frequencies begin with 851, 852, and/or 853, and they all have a "0" in the fourth decimal place of the frequency. All of Davis County's frequencies are of these "new" frequencies and cannot be accessed by older trunk-tracking scanners if they cannot be upgraded. The 780 cannot be upgraded. I have two sitting on my desk as I write this so I am speaking from first hand knowledge. Also see the RR Wiki article.

Now, you can enter all of Davis County's frequencies as conventional frequencies and you will be able to scan them as conventional frequencies, but any tracking of conversations will be entirely coincidental.

(You can read more about the Davis County Rebanding here. Pay particular attention to post #21.)

The trunking tables in the 780s are the old default tables and cannot be edited because the 780 cannot accept firmware upgrades. BUT the 780 is not useless. It can still scan other Motorola 800 MHz II SmartZone systems and most of UCAN's Utah Sites with an approximately 20% ~ 80% trunk-tracking rate depending on the frequencies used by the site. Only those frequencies I have named above cannot be "heard."

The 780 can track ALL of Salt Lake City's TRS (AC33 System) and the SL Airport's TRS (System 3521) because rebanding did not apply to them since all of their frequencies are under the threshold requiring rebanding.

All that is 100% correct, but without the ARC780 program in the mix. Shouldn't he at least TRY? Why don't you try with one of your 780s.?

 

[qlajlu]

All that is 100% correct, but without the ARC780 program in the mix. Shouldn't he at least TRY? Why don't you try with one of your 780s.?

If he already has the software, then go for it. I'm not going to waste $40 unless I know for sure. All indicators from people in the know at Uniden say it will not work. I've already spoken with UPMan. But, hey, I would give most anything to keep my 780s going like they used to.

 

[DickH]

... All indicators from people in the know at Uniden say it will not work. I've already spoken with UPMan.

Don't forget who they work for - and they are in business to sell new scanners. Hmmm.

You might find this interesting. It's long, but worth reading.
http://www.ukmidlandscanner.co.uk/arcrev.htm

 

[qlajlu]

Copy the file 780plan.dat from the zipfile to the directory where you installed ARC780.
Open 780plan.dat with a text editor.
The default file looks like this:

FR25 MD2 ST0
FR88 MD1 ST6
FR108 MD2 ST4
FR137 MD3 ST0
FR146 MD3 ST2
FR174 MD1 ST5
FR225 MD2 ST5
FR400 MD3 ST2


'mode: ( MD ) 0=FM 1=WFM 2=AM 3=NFM
'step: ( ST ) 0=5.0 1=7.5 2=10.0 3=12.5 4=25.0 5=50.0 6=100.0

Every line contains a frequency, mode and step.
Example: a frequency of 140.000 MHz will get mode 3 ( = Am ) and step 0 ( = 5 kHz).
If you like to add a frequency start point of 138 MHz with mode AM and step 100 kHz add the following line:
FR138 MD2 ST6

Try this:
FR851 MD0 (or 3) ST4

If this is to work the step must be 12.5 kHz. Remember, using "regular" trunking tables, the scanner does math based on the LCN. It does not appear that the LCN enters the equation in this software.

Yes, jonlwright, let us know if you get this to work. The way to tell is to watch the frequencies displayed while the scanner is monitoring a call. If you see frequencies starting with 851, 852, 853, AND have a "0" in the fourth decimal place, then these are the "new" frequencies.

 

[DickH]

If this is to work the step must be 12.5 kHz.

That may be correct, but have you considered that the 851-854 freqs. with the 4th decimal place ending in 5 are already in the scanner with .025 spacing (851.0125, 851.0375 etc.), thus you only need to add the new ones with .025 spacing (851.0250, 851.0500 etc.)?

 

[DickH]

That may be correct, but have you considered that the 851-854 freqs. with the 4th decimal place ending in 5 are already in the scanner with .025 spacing (851.0125, 851.0375 etc.), thus you only need to add the new ones with .025 spacing (851.0250, 851.0500 etc.)?

WHOA! Look at page 2 in the manual. The 851-854 freqs. are ALREADY .0125 spacing.
(from page 2 ... 851.0000–868.9875 NFM 12.5 ...)
If that's the case, the 780 should work OK right now. ??????
Very confusing.

 

[jonlwright]

Hi,

First of all thank you for your advise on this. Like I stated earlier, the scanner is trunking but It doesn't seem to follow the channels quite as well.

In the past most traffic for Northern Utah LEO came from the Oquirrh and Davis simulcast sites which I had very good control channel data from. It seems the new reband likes to jump sites more than before. For example I see much more new taffic on the Francis site and the Davis Landfill site. Also it is tough to lock into the control channel for weber simulcast which was never a problem in the past.

I currently have the database set for 851-854 12.5 NFM because that is the defaults.
I guess it wouldn't hurt to try the entry FR851 MD0 ST3 if you think that would help. Also I will watch for channels in the 851-851 with a .xxx0

 

[DickH]

... I currently have the database set for 851-854 12.5 NFM because that is the defaults.
I guess it wouldn't hurt to try the entry FR851 MD0 ST3 if you think that would help. Also I will watch for channels in the 851-851 with a .xxx0

That first sentence is not clear. You "set" the database? According to the list of freqs. on page 2, the default is already "set" for 851-854 with 12.5 spacing. Obviously, since you're not receiving everything (I think), that is not the case.

For a meaningful test, monitor only one strong control channel and see if you get any of the .xxx0 freqs.
We know the default doesn't work, so try the FR851 MD3 ST3. If that works, great. If not, try FR851 MD3 ST4.

 

[UPMan]

There is nothing ARC (or anything else) can do to make this scanner operate correctly on rebanded sites. Once a site rebands, the scanner will be effectively deaf on that site.

 

[ww7y]

Thanks UPMan.....reason prevails.

My 780s work fairly well on Salt Lake Simo which has the majority of it's LCNs below 439, which the 780 will track. If you watch this site on Trunker, 6 out of the first 7 LCNs the system uses are below 439 and I get almost 100% when traffic loading is low. As it increases more of the LCNs used fall above 440, so I miss more. Now on Davis Simo most of the LCNs are above 440 and indeed the 780s are nearly deaf there.

Oh, but if there was a way to change the firmware in the 780s, I would be all over it, they were great radios. Maybe a project for an ambious software engineer to develop, but I'm sure the existing firmware is proprietary. Until then one of my 780s has a discriminator tap which feeds my laptop running UniTrunker, so it gets used. My other one is feeding ScanAmerica the Salt Lake Fire Communications stream. 100% on AC33 and 80+% on Salt Lake Simo......hey, what do you want for free?