Uniden BCD 996xt no good in Park City!

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KSPILOT536

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Dunno about the dead zone theory...before January,my old RS scanner was ALWAYS hot with action..HP,WPD.EMS all of it..now...ONLY HP is good,no problems there,clear as a bell.
I brought the scanner with me to work on the southside of Wichita and will test it this afternoon to see what happens.
I will post later on the outcome!
 

dgruver911

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Sedgwick County is NOT Phase 2, they are Phase 1. The capability is there in the system, but many of the radios in use right now are Phase 1 only.
 

fp5930

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Uniden BCD996XT No Good In Park City

Living a mile west of Park City I don't know if the problem is not enough signal strength from the simulcast towers or if we are in an area where the towers are sending equal signal strength and the scanners are unable to determine which signal to receive so they don't pick up any. I suppose I should try erecting an outside antenna to see what the results are but seems like a lot of work and expense if it doesn't solve the problem.
 

KSPILOT536

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Did a test today.

I have been having all kinds of problems trying to recieve Wichita police here in Park City(lot of posts about it) heres the deal,I brought the scanner to work today which is on the south side of Wichita,turned it on driving home north to Park City and sounded GREAT,it worked flawlessly,lots of calls and clear as a bell,as I got about 3 miles north of downtown on the interstate the signals started to chop and then when I got into Park City,it was almost nothing again,can the signals be that weak?
You would think that police radios would be able to go farther than the city limits,anyway,thats where im at and do not know what to do about it..one thing is clear,Wichita police,fire and EMS run on PHASE 1,some told me it was on phase 2..if that were the case I would not have got the many calls on the way home today!
Thanks for reading!
 

Russell

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W8RMH

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Radio systems are designed to only cover their area of operations. They are not designed to cater to the convenience of scanner listeners. The FCC now restricts licensees to use only the power that is needed to communicate in their area.

This is why many state systems are using IP technology to extend their range.

One option would be a better antenna, preferably a directional yagi antenna aimed toward the site that you want to listen too. There are many systems I would like to hear but I am out of range so I deal with it.
 

ofd8001

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I have been having all kinds of problems trying to recieve Wichita police here in Park City(lot of posts about it) heres the deal,I brought the scanner to work today which is on the south side of Wichita,turned it on driving home north to Park City and sounded GREAT,it worked flawlessly,lots of calls and clear as a bell,as I got about 3 miles north of downtown on the interstate the signals started to chop and then when I got into Park City,it was almost nothing again,can the signals be that weak?

That is exactly the problem of simulcast distortion. The Sedgwick simulcast system uses ten transmitting sites. All of these sites are transmitting on the same frequencies.

When your scanner is receiving transmissions from multiple towers, it has trouble decoding the signals because the same packet of data may be out of perfect sync - data from transmitter "A" is microseconds off from the data coming from transmitter "B". The scanner is thus being confused and cannot produce clear audio.

("Regular system radios" - those used by responders cost $3,500 compared to the $400-500 for a scanner. The "brains" of the system radios are a lot more effective on dealing with signals coming from more than one site. That's because of the cost.)

Only when you receive transmission data (the 1's and 0's associated with digital readio signals) from one transmitter, will you get that clear audio.

To help illustrate this, look at the graphic below, which shows a hypothetical three site simulcast system. The three rings show the coverage of each transmitting site. The green areas is where the audio is clear. Orange will be poor audio (garbled/broken) and the red you may not hear anything at all.

This is not an issue of weak signals - just the opposite: too many signals. If you notice the signal strength meter when you hear that garble, it probably shows all bars. Thus this is a case of the scanner having difficulty decoding all the signals it is being bombarded with.

Things to try: Turn site attenuation on. Change the P25 Adjust Mode and P25 Adjust Levels to see if improvements are made. You won't achieve perfection, just some degree of improvement.

I struggled with this same predicament with our local simulcast system and its 13 sites. I had a 996XT in my fire department vehicle, which also had a "real system radio". I knew there was traffic on the system, as I heard it on the real radio, but nothing or garble on the scanner. But I could go 1/4 mile away and the scanner was perfectly clear.

As far as actual coverage area goes, it's a whole new concept these days due to frequency availability. Instead of one big transmitter with lots of power on a big antenna, metropolitan areas are using simulcast systems. Simulcast systems have several transmitters on lower power to achieve the coverage area. For our system in Louisville KY, the design parameters were to cover the geographical boundary, plus three miles beyond.

Simulcast systems are great things if you are an emergency responder, but just the opposite for a scanner listener. When we went from a conventional analog system to a digital simulcast system, it was like day and night. Most everywhere had a good, clear signal with few dead spots. In my nearly 40 years in public safety, I believe our new radio system was probably one of the best things that happened.

I've also had a great number of scanners over those years. The x96 series scanners had their difficulty in receiving simulcast systems. However the newest models, the x36 series, are much better. I can take a 396XT (the portable version of the 996XT) in my vehicle which has a 536 scanner. The 396XT will have garbled/no audio, where the 536 is clear.
 
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W6KRU

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Make sure you are using FM not NFM. The incorrect default of NFM aggravates the simulcast problems greatly on my local system.
 

wa2sqq

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Switching to FM may not be right for all

Make sure you are using FM not NFM. The incorrect default of NFM aggravates the simulcast problems greatly on my local system.

Hi Dan
Just posted my results of P25 Decode Test. While switching to FM did slightly improve P25 decoding, it caused the radio to randomly stop on TG's that had no activity. Was able to duplicate this on two systems, both in 470 mhz range. Oddly, no such problem with 800 mhz systems, that were even weaker. I'm so disappointed with 536 .. my old 996 is so much better, and the decoded audio is less garbled.
 

W6KRU

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Hi Dan
Just posted my results of P25 Decode Test. While switching to FM did slightly improve P25 decoding, it caused the radio to randomly stop on TG's that had no activity. Was able to duplicate this on two systems, both in 470 mhz range. Oddly, no such problem with 800 mhz systems, that were even weaker. I'm so disappointed with 536 .. my old 996 is so much better, and the decoded audio is less garbled.

Hi Robert, I should have prefaced my statement with 'If you are listening to 800MHz'. I don't have any experience with the other bands.
 

ofd8001

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Thanks for the clarification OFD..sounds reasonable,NOW,what can I do about it or do I have to buy a 536?

1. Have you tried turning Site Attenuation On?
2. Have you tried making any changes in the P25 Adjust Mode and P 25 Adjust Level settings?

The last idea I have is a shot in the dark. If you have an extra piece of coax cable with a BNC end, you could try the following: On the end opposite of the BNC connector, strip about three inches (3") of outer insulation/shielding/inner insulation so that only that 3" of center conductor is exposed. Then connect the BNC end to the scanner.

If the above things do no give you satisfactory reception, then it's time to discuss the second part of your question. Whether you "have" to buy a 536 is a function of your desire to listen to this system and financial resources.

I can tell you what I did. The 996XT that was in my fire department vehicle was my own personal scanner. When I retired, I installed it in my pickup truck. A few months later, the 536's came on the market and I got one for home. I was so impressed with the improvement in reception, I bought a second 536 to replace the 996 in my pickup truck. The 996 was put in my garage/workshop. There are many other non-simulcast systems around "these parts" that I like to listen to and the 996 does that for me.
 

KSPILOT536

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I have tried removing the antenna,using a paper clip as an antenna,trying different settings on P25 filter,and NOTHING works!
Its the simulcast system that's not working,everything else,Butler county sheriff,HP..ect all work good.
Im soooo disappointed that a scanner will not work 2 miles out of a major city.
O well..gave it my best shot and not beating this dead horse anymore.
 

n0lqt

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Think of the smooth surface of a pond. Drop 10 identical rocks into it at different locations all at the same time. You get waves going out from each point. Those waves start interacting with other waves and reflections. Sometimes the waves add to each other. Some will cancel out. The troughs don't necessarily stay in the same spots either. This is of course an overly simplified model of a multicast system, but you get the idea.

I too have tried many different settings, antennas, locations, and orientations on my scanner from up here in Newton. My best results seem to work for about half a day and then right back to catching a snippet here, a syllable there. I move the scanner to the other side of the room and it works fine for half a day. The control channel rolls over to anther frequency and I'm back to square one.

I'm using a RS Pro-106 with a -6 db attenuator in line to stubby-duck on a 6 ft long cable (RG174) with the digital detect threshold set high (90 or above), auto-tune and AGC both off, and multisite off. I have to periodically move or re-orient the antenna when traffic slacks off over the speaker. Not the best solution for monitoring but if I want to listen to SG County that's what I have to do.
 

bchappuie

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Some weird thought, you may be missing the control channel for the Park City tower. Might run close call, and see if you can see it, and make sure it's loaded.
 
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