Uniden, please fix the P25 system patch issue

[tampabaynews]

Has anyone noticed that the newer Uniden scanners cannot follow patched talkgroups on some P25 systems?

I have a police department on its own P25 Phase II system by Harris. During non-peak hours they patch two dispatch talkgroups together. This happens daily.

The problem is, when they do this the talkgroups go completely silent. In order to hear this traffic you need to be in ID search mode and find the system patch.

For this system, the patch talkgroups are random and can be anywhere in the 65XXX range. This makes alpha tagging these talkgroups useless.

I have customers that use scanners (think news media/restoration companies/traffic reporting) that have asked me what these random numbers mean on their scanners. Very annoying.

I'm not sure if this is an issue with differences in Motorola vs Harris trunking or Phase I vs Phase II. I experience this on my 996P2/325P2. There's also some older threads from 536/436 users about this issue as well.

Is there some technical reason this can't be achieved or is this bug just not being addressed?

 

[buddrousa]

This is not a bug if they use a different talk group everytime how would the scanner know. The radios are in OTA over the air programming is how that is done.

 

[tampabaynews]

I think you misunderstood me...

I was referring to the inability of Uniden scanners follow talkgroups when they're patched together on some P25 systems.

This has nothing to do with OTAP.

 

[Voyager]

It's a confirmed issue. You need to have the 'supergroup' programmed. That would be one of the patched TGIDs. But, if they are using an arbitrary TGID for the supergroup, your only recourse is to use ID SEARCH. There is no practical way for a scanner to know you want to monitor a random TGID.

So, program all the known TGIDs, lock them out (or AVOID them) and use ID SEARCH.

 

[mitbr]

It's a confirmed issue. You need to have the 'supergroup' programmed. That would be one of the patched TGIDs.

Huh??

 

[Voyager]

Huh??

When TGs are patched together, they usually just patch both TGIDs. But, the recent scanners will only follow the primary patched TGID (the supergroup).

For example, if you have TGID 1 programmed, but not 2, there are two ways to patch it (OPs issue aside).

1. They can patch TG 2 to TG 1. You will then hear activity from both TGIDs, as the supergroup (TGID 1) is programmed.

2. They can patch TG1 to TG2. You will not hear activity on either TGID because you have the supergroup (TGID 2) locked out or not programmed.

In the OPs case, they are patching several TGs to a supergroup which is apparently a random TGID.

What the scanners should do, and the radios will do, is monitor activity for a TGID whether it's the supergroup or not - as long as it's part of the patch. In either example 1 or 2, a radio monitoring either TG 1 or TG 2 will hear activity on both. I believe the 'fix' for this is for the scanner to track the patch table and treat any patched TG as active on the system (locked out or not) as long as at least one of the patched TGs is programmed.

For general reference, a supergroup is a collection of patched TGs which possesses the identity of the primary patched TGID.

 

[mikewazowski]

Exact same issue they had with 3600 baud Motorola trunking systems.

Didn't get fixed until the XT line of scanners came out.

Let's hope they fix it now with a firmware release so we don't have to wait until the next line of Uniden scanners come out.

 

[mitbr]

Thanks for explaining that Voyager. The system Ryan and I are trying to figure out is an Edacs conversion to phase 2 so I am not hearing a supertalkgroup only the patched talk group shows up.
Tim

 

[tampabaynews]

From what I can understand, this is not a problem for GRE. They released a firmware update for some of their models long ago that addressed this issue.

Again, why can't Uniden figure it out?

 

[Steve2003]

Been dying to have this for years. Hopefully they have something in the works so I can start calling UPMan UP-Patch-Man (and follow patches).

Out here in Colorado, it's nearly impossible to monitor a specific State Patrol troop. 50+ patch events within 10 minutes earlier this morning:

"07/16 09:45:37","Removed Patch: 2455 (CSP Troop 3C) --> 2451 (CSP: 3A Disp)"
"07/16 09:45:39","Removed Patch: 2455 (CSP Troop 3C) --> 2451 (CSP: 3A Disp)"
"07/16 09:45:45","Removed Patch: 2455 (CSP Troop 3C) --> 2451 (CSP: 3A Disp)"
"07/16 09:45:48","Added Patch:   2381 (CSP: 1A-E Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:45:48","Added Patch:   2455 (CSP Troop 3C) --> 2451 (CSP: 3A Disp)"
"07/16 09:45:50","Added Patch:   2305 (CSP: 1D Dispatch) --> 2389 (CSP: 1D-W Disp)"
"07/16 09:46:34","Removed Patch: 2305 (CSP: 1D Dispatch) --> 2389 (CSP: 1D-W Disp)"
"07/16 09:46:38","Added Patch:   2455 (CSP Troop 3C) --> 2451 (CSP: 3A Disp)"
"07/16 09:47:17","Removed Patch: 2305 (CSP: 1D Dispatch) --> 2389 (CSP: 1D-W Disp)"
"07/16 09:47:31","Added Patch:   2381 (CSP: 1A-E Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:47:31","Added Patch:   2455 (CSP Troop 3C) --> 2451 (CSP: 3A Disp)"
"07/16 09:47:32","Added Patch:   2305 (CSP: 1D Dispatch) --> 2389 (CSP: 1D-W Disp)"
"07/16 09:48:13","Removed Patch: 2305 (CSP: 1D Dispatch) --> 2389 (CSP: 1D-W Disp)"
"07/16 09:48:16","Added Patch:   2381 (CSP: 1A-E Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:49:18","Added Patch:   2385 (CSP: 1A-W Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:49:25","Removed Patch: 2385 (CSP: 1A-W Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:49:25","Removed Patch: 2385 (CSP: 1A-W Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:49:26","Removed Patch: 2385 (CSP: 1A-W Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:49:28","Removed Patch: 2385 (CSP: 1A-W Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:49:29","Removed Patch: 2385 (CSP: 1A-W Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:49:31","Added Patch:   2381 (CSP: 1A-E Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:49:31","Added Patch:   2385 (CSP: 1A-W Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:49:32","Added Patch:   2305 (CSP: 1D Dispatch) --> 2389 (CSP: 1D-W Disp)"
"07/16 09:49:36","Added Patch:   2455 (CSP Troop 3C) --> 2451 (CSP: 3A Disp)"
"07/16 09:50:21","Removed Patch: 2455 (CSP Troop 3C) --> 2451 (CSP: 3A Disp)"
"07/16 09:50:23","Removed Patch: 2305 (CSP: 1D Dispatch) --> 2389 (CSP: 1D-W Disp)"
"07/16 09:50:24","Removed Patch: 2385 (CSP: 1A-W Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:50:26","Added Patch:   2455 (CSP Troop 3C) --> 2451 (CSP: 3A Disp)"
"07/16 09:50:28","Added Patch:   2305 (CSP: 1D Dispatch) --> 2389 (CSP: 1D-W Disp)"
"07/16 09:51:56","Removed Patch: 2305 (CSP: 1D Dispatch) --> 2389 (CSP: 1D-W Disp)"
"07/16 09:52:01","Removed Patch: 2455 (CSP Troop 3C) --> 2451 (CSP: 3A Disp)"
"07/16 09:52:01","Removed Patch: 2455 (CSP Troop 3C) --> 2451 (CSP: 3A Disp)"
"07/16 09:52:01","Removed Patch: 2455 (CSP Troop 3C) --> 2451 (CSP: 3A Disp)"
"07/16 09:52:05","Added Patch:   2305 (CSP: 1D Dispatch) --> 2389 (CSP: 1D-W Disp)"
"07/16 09:52:06","Added Patch:   2455 (CSP Troop 3C) --> 2451 (CSP: 3A Disp)"
"07/16 09:52:06","Added Patch:   2381 (CSP: 1A-E Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:52:06","Added Patch:   2385 (CSP: 1A-W Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:52:26","Removed Patch: 2385 (CSP: 1A-W Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:52:26","Removed Patch: 2385 (CSP: 1A-W Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:52:30","Removed Patch: 2455 (CSP Troop 3C) --> 2451 (CSP: 3A Disp)"
"07/16 09:52:31","Added Patch:   2381 (CSP: 1A-E Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:52:31","Added Patch:   2385 (CSP: 1A-W Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:52:43","Removed Patch: 2385 (CSP: 1A-W Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:52:44","Removed Patch: 2385 (CSP: 1A-W Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:52:45","Removed Patch: 2385 (CSP: 1A-W Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:52:45","Removed Patch: 2385 (CSP: 1A-W Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:52:46","Added Patch:   2381 (CSP: 1A-E Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:52:46","Added Patch:   2385 (CSP: 1A-W Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:52:47","Added Patch:   2305 (CSP: 1D Dispatch) --> 2389 (CSP: 1D-W Disp)"
"07/16 09:53:07","Added Patch:   2381 (CSP: 1A-E Disp) --> 2401 (CSP: 1E Dispatch)"
"07/16 09:53:07","Added Patch:   2305 (CSP: 1D Dispatch) --> 2389 (CSP: 1D-W Disp)"
"07/16 09:53:08","Removed Patch: 2305 (CSP: 1D Dispatch) --> 2389 (CSP: 1D-W Disp)"

 

[mitbr]

I have seen Upman on the forums today maybe he will chyme in on this long term bug.
Tim

 

[Voyager]

Been dying to have this for years. Hopefully they have something in the works so I can start calling UPMan UP-Patch-Man (and follow patches).

Out here in Colorado, it's nearly impossible to monitor a specific State Patrol troop. 50+ patch events within 10 minutes earlier this morning:

I understand what you are saying. But, there are only 3 TGs involved. I'm sure there are others, though.

 

[tbiggums]

This is not a bug if they use a different talk group everytime how would the scanner know. The radios are in OTA over the air programming is how that is done.

The scanner needs to be able to decode the special (proprietary) message on the control channel that tells what groups are patched to what. Right now, all Uniden scanners completely ignore this message. The recent Model GRE-made units (anything newer than the PRO-96/2096) have it figured out, though.

The patch message on the control channel is different on Harris systems than it is on Motorola systems, so the scanner needs to be able to work with both.

I won't be buying a Uniden scanner until they fix this.

 

[RoninJoliet]

I may be wrong on this but in the menu setting "status bit" to "YES" will give you odd TG's or patches but only on Motorola systems ??

 

[tampabaynews]

I may be wrong on this but in the menu setting "status bit" to "YES" will give you odd TG's or patches but only on Motorola systems ??

Isn't an option for P25 systems.