Uniden Scanners and how they handle encryption

[SOFA_KING]

Uniden attempts (as much as possible) to "hide" encrypted talkgroups from scanner users... that is, under many conditions, even if you have the system/control channel(s) programmed, you won't even know that encryption is in use unless you look very closely and know what to look for.

That's a good thing! Why hang up the scan with noise?

Actually, it's not "hide", but "skip over". And on P25 Phase I (and ProVoice) you will often briefly see the Talkgroup number and then ENC before the scanner continues once it figures out it's encrypted. That's another good thing, as you can still scan these talkgroups for any unencrypted comms.

If the system turns out to be fully Phase 2 (actually using Phase 2 mode/TDMA for it's talkgroups), I believe you will be able to detect encryption in use with the Uniden - but it will only sound like gibberish.

That's a bad thing! Why hang up the scan with noise?

I had hoped Uniden would have fixed this by now.

As far as the newer Whistler scanners go, I like to use them for encryption verification. They capture and record all the NAC and ID numbers...even on encrypted traffic. Then you can tell who it is and what they are using.

For me, it's Uniden for listening, and Whistler for searching. Both do a great job to cover the bases.

Phil

 

[troymail]

We're off topic for the question but this is a matter of opinion.

I (and I am sure others) prefer the OPTION to hide encrypted talkgroups once I've seen them...helps to better understand the system and users...and how much of the system is encrypted vs. clear.

I've helped lots of users with Uniden scanners who can't understand why they can't hear anything on the system they are monitoring. In many cases, some if not all of the system is encrypted -- in these cases, they are left to believe that either they've incorrectly programmed the system or that the scanner is defective. There are lots of systems with encrypted talkgroups which are either not properly tagged as encrypted and/or simply not listed at all.

"Whistler for searching and Uniden for listening" - as you say (again, a matter of opinion) - might be an option for some of us who have the luxury of having multiple radios - but that doesn't help those who only have a Uniden.

I also have long believed that Uniden's efforts to detect and hide encryption (among other things) also adversely affect their performance as well...

That's a good thing! Why hang up the scan with noise?

Actually, it's not "hide", but "skip over". And on P25 Phase I (and ProVoice) you will often briefly see the Talkgroup number and then ENC before the scanner continues once it figures out it's encrypted. That's another good thing, as you can still scan these talkgroups for any unencrypted comms.



That's a bad thing! Why hang up the scan with noise?

I had hoped Uniden would have fixed this by now.

As far as the newer Whistler scanners go, I like to use them for encryption verification. They capture and record all the NAC and ID numbers...even on encrypted traffic. Then you can tell who it is and what they are using.

For me, it's Uniden for listening, and Whistler for searching. Both do a great job to cover the bases.

Phil

 

[devicelab]

How can I find out if the frequencies I want to listen to are or will be encrypted?

If you have a $20 RTL SDR USB dongle OR a scanner/receiver (that can receive 700mhz) then you can use Pro96com (or DSD+) to monitor the control channel frequency.

The software will tell you if the talkgroups are encrypted or not.

One of these days I'll head up there to monitor the system myself. Just not sure when that will be...

 

[SOFA_KING]

I want that OPTION, as well. Uniden just isn't doing it. We have asked. And skipping over encryption (or P25 data) on SEARCH is just dumb. Again, we have made this known to Uniden. Apparently, either they don't get it, or they don't care.

It would be nice if ONE scanner could be used to do what is generally needed, but that is not the case.

And I appreciate that you are helping others with these issues.

Phil

 

[milcom_chaser]

A better option to continue using wildcard -

Each time you hear the busy signal, press MENU and store the TGID. The next time you hear that newly stored TGID, press SKIP. This way, you can gradually lock out all of the encrypted TGs but still monitor for new, unidentified non-encrypted talkgroups.

NOTE: on some systems, encryption is "partial" - one side might be in the clear and/or the encryption is only used "on demand" to provide a secure channel to protect sensitive information.

Nice Tip!

 

[RRR]

We're off topic for the question but this is a matter of opinion.

I (and I am sure others) prefer the OPTION to hide encrypted talkgroups once I've seen them...helps to better understand the system and users...and how much of the system is encrypted vs. clear.

I've helped lots of users with Uniden scanners who can't understand why they can't hear anything on the system they are monitoring. In many cases, some if not all of the system is encrypted -- in these cases, they are left to believe that either they've incorrectly programmed the system or that the scanner is defective. There are lots of systems with encrypted talkgroups which are either not properly tagged as encrypted and/or simply not listed at all.

"Whistler for searching and Uniden for listening" - as you say (again, a matter of opinion) - might be an option for some of us who have the luxury of having multiple radios - but that doesn't help those who only have a Uniden.

I also have long believed that Uniden's efforts to detect and hide encryption (among other things) also adversely affect their performance as well...

I absolutely concur! Give us the choice.

 

[Haley]

We're off topic for the question but this is a matter of opinion.

I (and I am sure others) prefer the OPTION to hide encrypted talkgroups once I've seen them...helps to better understand the system and users...and how much of the system is encrypted vs. clear.

I've helped lots of users with Uniden scanners who can't understand why they can't hear anything on the system they are monitoring. In many cases, some if not all of the system is encrypted -- in these cases, they are left to believe that either they've incorrectly programmed the system or that the scanner is defective. There are lots of systems with encrypted talkgroups which are either not properly tagged as encrypted and/or simply not listed at all.

"Whistler for searching and Uniden for listening" - as you say (again, a matter of opinion) - might be an option for some of us who have the luxury of having multiple radios - but that doesn't help those who only have a Uniden.

I also have long believed that Uniden's efforts to detect and hide encryption (among other things) also adversely affect their performance as well...

This method is exactly what I do also. I agree with other's the option would be nice.