Unitrunker and EDACS LCN

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badbyz

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Odessa TX
I am trying to determine logical channel order of an EDACS system using unitrunker and Pro 106. I entered all published freqs. tuned in control channel and let unitrunker do its thing. The software determines the number of system channels but radio frequencies all show up as 000.0000 except for control channel.

Can someone steer me in the right direction.

Thanks
 

SCPD

QRT
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Feb 24, 2001
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Virginia
I am trying to determine logical channel order of an EDACS system using unitrunker and Pro 106.
The program has no way of determining the voice channel LCN to frequency map. You can get the frequencies by downloading the system from the RR DB. Locate the system in the RR DB, retrieve the database SID - type that into system's Info tab and click the ship's wheel to download the system.

You can also manually determine the frequency / LCN pairs by observing the system during periods of low activity. Use a separate radio with all voice channels entered as conventional frequencies. When a call appears (and only one call), press scan on the second radio. Which ever frequency has voice traffic is likely the frequency for the active LCN. Repeat this several times to verify. I've mapped out a 20 channel site in less than 15 minutes under the right conditions.

This technique does not work during heavy call volume; try early mornings and late evenings.

If the RR database does not have the correct ordering - please submit your findings!
 

badbyz

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Odessa TX
unitrunk question

i was finally able to run unitrunker on an EDACS system that Ive been having trouble getting a proper LCN order. When I run the program I get a LCN that skips a channel. The program lists a 7 channel system and gives the LCN as 1,2,3,4,6,7,8. Channel 5 is not listed I let the program run for an hour to make sure 5 would not display and it never did. How would I go about programming this system into my pro106? By listing slot 5 as 000.000 or what??

Thanks for any help.
 

SkipSanders

Silent Key
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Dec 19, 2002
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Not all systems use all LCN's. You just don't enter an entry for non-used LCN's.

In fact, it seems fairly common for a large EDACS system to have 'skipped' LCN's.
 

steve0622

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Jun 9, 2008
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Electra, TX
i've got a lil issue here maybe some can help me with. I've had Wichita Falls, Tx EDACS PROVOICE system in my radio shack pro 197 for a while......I am able to hear the fire department at times when they are on analog, but i cant hear them at all on digital unless i go through my pro 97 with disc. tap and dsd. I know that just about all of pd is encrypted and I wont hear them, but i should still hear the fire dept. when on digital, but all im getting is the fire tone out tones. I did a lil research with unitrunker and it is showing the system to be EDACS96 signal being inverted and the bandwidth of 12.5. Now, from my understanding EDACS96 stands for WIDE band standard EDACS.When programming in the EDACS standard, there is an option for narrow fm(of which i've tried with no result), but there is no inverted option. I have also setup the system as EDACS narrow, with narrow fm and i do get the inverted option, but unitrunker will not catch the control channel on the EDACS narrow. The LCN listed with RR is correct, verfied yesterday as well, and I have the control channel as the first frequency. i'm really at a loss on what to try next, because i know for a fact the Wichita Falls Fire Department is not encrypted which means i should still get them on digital.
 

SCPD

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unitrunker and it is showing the system to be EDACS96 signal being inverted and the bandwidth of 12.5.
Inverted means the signal appears inverted after being converted to digital audio inside your computer. This may be because (a) that's the polarity of the signal at the tap point inside your radio or (b) your sound input inverts the signal prior to converting it to digital data or (c) the signal's polarity is inverted. Those three variables give 8 possible permutations.

The 12.5 khz bandwidth is a default value used as a hint in selecting the mode for voice following. You can change it to 25 khz. This does not mean you have a narrow band 4800 baud EDACS system. In fact, this is impossible because ProVoice cannot function on 4800 bits per second. It needs the full 9600 bits per second.

Now, from my understanding EDACS96 stands for WIDE band standard EDACS.When programming in the EDACS standard, there is an option for narrow fm(of which i've tried with no result), but there is no inverted option.
That's because the radio's internal circuitry does not have the uncertainty of polarity that you do with a discriminator tap. In fact, GRE should drop the invert option from EDACS narrow band because it will always be ON for this mode to work. (EDACS48 is always inverted from EDACS96).

i'm really at a loss on what to try next, because i know for a fact the Wichita Falls Fire Department is not encrypted which means i should still get them on digital.
What does Unitrunker display as the service type when FD calls appear?
 

steve0622

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Jun 9, 2008
Messages
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Location
Electra, TX
ok, right after typing my previous message, the control channel for the EDACS system just changed to LCN 3. I am now hearing the fire department and it is commin up as VC service type on the scanner screen and not sure what it showed on unitrunker, wasnt looking at that screen when i heard them. I am seeing now that on unitrunker pd srv shows to be "dig"I have noticed with this system that when the control channel is on LCN 1 that is when I cannot hear the fire dept.
 

steve0622

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Jun 9, 2008
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92
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Electra, TX
ok just got another fd hit on unitrunker and it showed up "dig" for the service but nothing was comming across my other pro 197 scanner
 

steve0622

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Jun 9, 2008
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Electra, TX
ok, i figured it out...on the Wichita Falls Edacs Provoice system, the control channel that they are currently using has to be at the end of the frequency list. They have 3 different control channels that they use wich is LCN 1, 2, and 3. Once they switch control channels, you have to delete that frequency from the LCN list and add it to the end. They are now using LCN 3 858.4675 as the control channel and I am able to hear the fire dept. and DPS when they call in. I still cannot hear the PD because they are encrypted....to Unitrunker...thanks a million on giving me a place to start on solving this issue.
 

SCPD

QRT
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Location
Virginia
Sounds like the active control channel was included in the scan for your radio tied to DSD. As you've figured out, you need to lock that channel out. An alternative is to let Unitrunker steer the second radio to the voice calls you want to hear. This requires a voice radio that accepts computer control.
 

en11gma

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Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
31
im having same probem as OP
i have two E4000 (now i know unitrunker isnt supporting em like that) so my question will be on topic for unitrunker and one E4000 being used as a discriminator "signal" in unitrunker
the signal is edacs and site 1214 here on RR
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=1006
when creating the signal reciever in unitrunker (when i hit the play button) i get this screen automatically popping up.
http://i.imgur.com/X0nvINe.png
http://i.imgur.com/CHuFCN6.png
i edited the frequency in the site 0 window to 860.1125 as it shows on that link
where or what screen do i add the other non-control channels?
i know RR has a download button in unitrunker that fills all this info in but i just want to add that one edacs system. im in burlington iowa and not a whole lot of anything going on here as far as trunking.

anyhow there are some empty channels that got populated before i edited the freq in site 0 window.
when i did edit that freq it changed in in the edacs98 window (2nd SS)
do i add the non-control channels to site 0 window or the edacs98 window?
do i add or do i edit actually?
thanks
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
en11gma - you're fighting several problems at once.

The Black Hawk and Des Moines sites have identical site number and LCN line-ups.

The RR DB does not like duplicate site numbers so the RR DB administrators have gotten creative with the site numbers for RACOM (eg. 1114 vs. 1214).

On top of this ... and I don't know why ... the program is displaying the site number as zero ... which is plain wrong. It is probably site 14.

Until I can get this sorted out, I suggest the following work-around for your unique situation.

1. if the signal receiver is running, stop it.
2. delete all sites except 1214.
3. renumber site 1214 to be site 0.
4. mark LCN 13 as a control channel.
5. re-start the signal receiver.

If you see a "Limbo" site appear for site zero, enter the control channel frequency.

The program will use the Limbo site's site number, control channel LCN and frequency to find a match.It should switch to the RACOM site zero you already have.
 
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