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Unknown GMRS Repeaters in South Dakota

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KC0CCB

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Edgemont, South Dakota
I had heard of a repeater up near Sturgis on 462.600 with a PL Tone of 110.9

Does anybody have any further information on it if it even exists at all ?
 

KB7MIB

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Peoria, AZ.
Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.80 (BREW; Opera Mini/6.0.3/27.2354; U; en) Presto/2.8.119 320X240 LG VN530)

Not every GMRS repeater will be listed there. Some owners may not know of the website. Some owners may not want their repeater listed for whatever reason, such as being for private use only.
So a repeater may exist, but not be listed.
 

blastco2

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There are three repeaters, within 5 watts of my home, none are listed anywhere. 2 are fairly new, the other one has been on .700 for years with an auto id that goes off every 30 min. Other than the id I've never heard anyone on it, and I've listened to it for years. Why someone would put up a repeater and never use it is a mystery to me.
 

ecps92

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Get someone to Copy the ID and look up the Call-Sign and contact the owner

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_3; en-us) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0 Safari/537.36)

There are three repeaters, within 5 watts of my home, none are listed anywhere. 2 are fairly new, the other one has been on .700 for years with an auto id that goes off every 30 min. Other than the id I've never heard anyone on it, and I've listened to it for years. Why someone would put up a repeater and never use it is a mystery to me.
 

KD8DVR

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Columbus, Ohio
A lot of repeaters are like that... not being used. Any GMRS licensee can set up a repeater. They also do not have to make them public. Most actually are private.. either by dues paying "association" or a privite individual for use only by the owner and his family. They are not required to ID... as a matter of fact, an automatic ID is illegal.. because it constitutes "channel camping" in other words occupying a frequency when not being used. GMRS frequencies are shared, so it is legal for more than one repeater in the same area to occupy the same pair. There are a few in my area... one is a puzzler... the user gives a call sign that fits the public safety call format.. but is not, nor has ever been in the FCC database.

When I was licensed, I cannot count the number of GMRs repeaters I was kicked off of, because they were private. Kind of put a damper on vacation... although, I understand Disney World has or had one that was public.
 

blastco2

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A lot of repeaters are like that... not being used. Any GMRS licensee can set up a repeater. They also do not have to make them public. Most actually are private.. either by dues paying "association" or a privite individual for use only by the owner and his family. They are not required to ID... as a matter of fact, an automatic ID is illegal.. because it constitutes "channel camping" in other words occupying a frequency when not being used. GMRS frequencies are shared, so it is legal for more than one repeater in the same area to occupy the same pair. There are a few in my area... one is a puzzler... the user gives a call sign that fits the public safety call format.. but is not, nor has ever been in the FCC database.

When I was licensed, I cannot count the number of GMRs repeaters I was kicked off of, because they were private. Kind of put a damper on vacation... although, I understand Disney World has or had one that was public.
Kd8dvr
Do you know where in the FCC rules I could find info on the auto ID/channel camping? It really is obnoxious to have that id sounding off all the time and it effectively renders the channel useless for anyone not using ctcss/dcs. Even if you are using tones, the auto ID still causes interference.

Thanks
 

KD8DVR

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Kd8dvr
Do you know where in the FCC rules I could find info on the auto ID/channel camping? It really is obnoxious to have that id sounding off all the time and it effectively renders the channel useless for anyone not using ctcss/dcs. Even if you are using tones, the auto ID still causes interference.

Thanks
ALL GMRS frequencies are "shared" Automatic IDs deprive other users of the frequency... see below

§95.7 Channel sharing.

(a) Channels or channel pairs (one 462 MHz frequency listed in §95.29(a) of this part and one 467 MHz frequency listed in §95.29(b) of this part) are available to GMRS systems only on a shared basis and will not be assigned for the exclusive use of any licensee. All station operators and GMRS system licensees must cooperate in the selection and use of channels to reduce interference and to make the most effective use of the facilities.

(b) Licensees of GMRS systems suffering or causing harmful interference are expected to cooperate and resolve this problem by mutually satisfactory arrangements. If the licensees are unable to do so, the FCC may impose restrictions including specifying the transmitter power, antenna height, or area or hours of operation of the stations concerned. Further, the use of any frequency at a given geographical location may be denied when, in the judgment of the FCC, its use in that location is not in the public interest; the use of any channel or channel pair may be restricted as to specified geographical areas, maximum power, or other operating conditions.


...

§95.119 Station identification.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (e), every GMRS station must transmit a station identification:

(1) Following the transmission of communications or a series of communications; and

(2) Every 15 minutes during a long transmission.

(b) The station identification is the call sign assigned to the GMRS station or system.

(c) A unit number may be included after the call sign in the identification.

(d) The station identification must be transmitted in:

(1) Voice in the English language; or

(2) International Morse code telegraphy.

(e) A station need not identify its transmissions if it automatically retransmits communications from another station which are properly identified.

**Part (e) above says repeaters are not required to identify.
 

blastco2

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SouthEast Idaho
I'm not sure that i can get the repeater owner to buy into that. He was in the business... Sold radios, collected repeater fees, ect. When cell phones started getting affordable, his radio business died over a several year period. The gmrs repeater that he has is all that's left, that I know of. Been there, auto id'ing for 16 years or there about...
 

ecps92

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He is doing Nothing Illegal.

30 min Morse ? Not Bad, I've seen folks go 10-15 min's
30-60 is a pretty good time-frame

I'm not sure that i can get the repeater owner to buy into that. He was in the business... Sold radios, collected repeater fees, ect. When cell phones started getting affordable, his radio business died over a several year period. The gmrs repeater that he has is all that's left, that I know of. Been there, auto id'ing for 16 years or there about...
 

blastco2

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Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
85
Location
SouthEast Idaho
He is doing Nothing Illegal.

30 min Morse ? Not Bad, I've seen folks go 10-15 min's
30-60 is a pretty good time-frame
I agree... however, no one uses this repeater, ever, at least not that I've been able to hear and I've been listening for like 16 years. Just an id every 30 min or so.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
 

RandyKnowles

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Dec 18, 2013
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Chicago North Shore
There are some additional sections of Part 95A that also apply.

95.21 A GMRS system is one or more transmitting units used by station operators to communicate messages. A GMRS system is complied of: (a) One or more station operators …..

When an unattended transmission of ID takes place, there is no station operator, in violation of 95.21(a).

95.119 was identified by KD8DVR above. Note that ID is not mandated when there is no "transmission of communications or a series of tarnsmissions".

95.171 Station operator duties. When a GMRS station is transmitting, it must have a station operator. The station operator must be at the control point for that station. … The station operator communicates messages and controls that station. The station operator must also cooperate in sharing each channel with station operators of other stations.

Unattended transmissions (by ID'ers) violate these provisions as well.

Note also that 95.181 Permissible communications. genarllly authorizes only two-way voice mesages, except "(g) A station opeartor may communicate tone messages for purposes of identification."

Randy Knowles, KAA 8142
 
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