Also - does anyone know, on a modern radio system, if a dispatcher can randomly turn encryption off and on? That might be an option for increasing cop safety and public safety. Seems like it should be technically possible since mobiles and portables seemingly can receive either way at any time.
Unknown if suspect listened to police - Boulder Colorado
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Also - does anyone know, on a modern radio system, if a dispatcher can randomly turn encryption off and on? That might be an option for increasing cop safety and public safety. Seems like it should be technically possible since mobiles and portables seemingly can receive either way at any time.
On a digital system, encryption can be turned on or off. But leaving it on full-time is easier.
It is technically possible. For example if you take a look at any P25 trunked system in the database & focus on the "Mode" column, any talkgroup ID'ed as "De" or "Te" with a lowercase "e" is encrypted partially or on-demand, though not every system features this. Various voice inversion methods can be utilized on analog channels as well. This is why various agencies who once utilized analog conventional channels have made the switch to P25 digital & some decide to fully or partially encrypt their ops
They did not say he was listening, they said he was laughing at them and "might be listening". They didn't know if he was.
wtp
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turn on the 'bubble machine'.
LD723
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As of now I don't believe there was any evidence that he was. At the time stamp you mentioned they just assumed he may be listening, they were not sure and didn't seem to be super concerned right after it was mentioned. I believe that the officer mentioning encryption meant like he wanted to get people to move to an encrypted channel not like turn it on on the current channel. Modern systems can have selectable encryption but I don't believe dispatchers can turn on encryption for other units but units can manually turn it on themselves if needed.
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To elaborate a little further - in this Boulder situation - lets say that the channel was usually operating in the clear. This call would be dispatched in the clear - units would arrive and give updates in the clear. At some point it would be obvious that the shooter or shooters were in 1 location, and not moving about the neighborhood or the building. At that point, encryption could be turned on because there would be no emergent need for the public to hear the police radio traffic. (Unless the shooter started moving around and endangering more people.)
We are trying to find the fine line between 'openness' and 'too much openness' here.
I cant remember ever hearing of a radio system where the dispatcher can turn the encryption off and on. But it seems to be technically possible.
From a slightly different angle - the police could have a scanner feed on their website - and turn it on and off as advantageous.
We are trying to find the fine line between 'openness' and 'too much openness' here.
I cant remember ever hearing of a radio system where the dispatcher can turn the encryption off and on. But it seems to be technically possible.
From a slightly different angle - the police could have a scanner feed on their website - and turn it on and off as advantageous.
Encryption can be turned on or off at will. By a dispatch operator globally or an officer/deputy/trooper on their own radios.
Strategic Air Command did it during the Cuban Missile Crisis in the 1960s, when General Tommy Power wanted to ensure that the Soviets and Cubans heard his "all call" to the troops to show how serious the US was.
Be very cautious and critical when you read, listen to, or watch news stories from ANY media. They are rife with inaccuracies, conjecture, and may well be pushing an agenda. Journalism programs in many universities are where many of the marginal students flock to these days.Look for words like could, might, perhaps, infer, possibly, likely, suggest, unknown, ambiguous... these are all words that signify that the writer does not know and may be falsifying or leading consumers to believe what is truly unknown or pushing an agenda.
I've been on many crime scenes in my time and not one of them was ever entirely and accurately reported. Some mistakes were genuine mistakes and some were so slanted it was obvious.
Strategic Air Command did it during the Cuban Missile Crisis in the 1960s, when General Tommy Power wanted to ensure that the Soviets and Cubans heard his "all call" to the troops to show how serious the US was.
Be very cautious and critical when you read, listen to, or watch news stories from ANY media. They are rife with inaccuracies, conjecture, and may well be pushing an agenda. Journalism programs in many universities are where many of the marginal students flock to these days.Look for words like could, might, perhaps, infer, possibly, likely, suggest, unknown, ambiguous... these are all words that signify that the writer does not know and may be falsifying or leading consumers to believe what is truly unknown or pushing an agenda.
I've been on many crime scenes in my time and not one of them was ever entirely and accurately reported. Some mistakes were genuine mistakes and some were so slanted it was obvious.
nbdyspclk
Member
you had an officer down and unreachable allowing his ht to transmit everything,no app,no scanner own depts radio,should have nuked it for safety.
Now there is a tough call. Disable his radio or leave it be in case he might be able to use it.
My thought is leave it be and have the scene go to a tac channel while dispatch continues to monitor.
But definitely more likely how he could have been listening.
My thought is leave it be and have the scene go to a tac channel while dispatch continues to monitor.
But definitely more likely how he could have been listening.
scanlist
Scanning since the 70's to today.
Interesting that a number of out of state posters are attempting to second guess the situation.
As one who unfortunately monitored this tragic situation. There was a subject at another location claiming to be involved
calling 911 and taunting while the evacuation was occurring inside the store. In basic terms a "96" individual.
Boulder public safety is VHF analog even though the city 700 system has been on the air for some time. Swat has ENC
TG's on DTRS and likely the city system. It was a SWAT command officer suggesting going to an encrypted TG during the situation. The other officer responding immediately after that transmission advised they needed to stay on POLICE-1 for interop.
.
As one who unfortunately monitored this tragic situation. There was a subject at another location claiming to be involved
calling 911 and taunting while the evacuation was occurring inside the store. In basic terms a "96" individual.
Boulder public safety is VHF analog even though the city 700 system has been on the air for some time. Swat has ENC
TG's on DTRS and likely the city system. It was a SWAT command officer suggesting going to an encrypted TG during the situation. The other officer responding immediately after that transmission advised they needed to stay on POLICE-1 for interop.
.
With modern technology Dispatch can brick the radio remotely
RFI-EMI-GUY
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Not having eyes inside via drone or robot really slowed down the response.
TailGator911
Silent Key/KF4ANC
I was a witness to media manipulation and misreporting back in 2018 when the active shooter alarm went out from the Wright-Patterson AFB hospital, where my wife is a supervisor. I was able to ascertain (via timely transmissions) that the whole thing was a mistake during a training procedure when an officer accidentally discharged his weapon during a door breach on an unused floor in the hospital. The response, the chaos, the media turned it into a sensational circus. Not to be outdone by circumstance, the media was still showing rerun footage of the response teams as much as 2 hrs after I had made contact with my wife, already knowing it was all over and there had been no danger. It's all about the ratings.
My understanding is that the police radio traffic on the Boulder system was on the legacy VHF system and they didn't have ability to encrypt it. I heard from a friend there was a reporter who was playing the radio traffic in the clear and when asked to turn it off he claimed he had the 1st amendment right to play it in the clear. Boulder PD, and the county S/O have been slow to migrate to a P-25 system. I can't speak for the City but the county was dealing with signal propagation in the mountains vs the flats.... Boulder County now has 800 MHz radios in all of their vehicles but I don't know what the percentage of P-25 vs VHF the traffic is. As unpopular s this is, I think this is a strong argument for ALL police traffic being encrypted to prevent idiots from allowing people at the scene of an incident to allow people at the scene from ear police tactics.
I don't think it's a strong argument so much as an easy argument. Command Staff personnel don't want to spend a lot of time on this sort of stuff, so they want "someone" to make it "not do that thing" so they can move on to other pressing matters.
Another easy argument to make is to stop the practice of patching mutual aid TGs that are designed to be in the clear to channels handling serious stuff. Given how often it happens, I don't think that'll stop anytime soon.
I listed to the recorded Boulder incident here on RR. I was taken aback and kinda stunned by what I heard as it transpired. I personally think this radicalized D-bag was hearing officers yell out to each other in the store and heard their radio traffic echoing through out the store. When I worked in Federal Corrections we often turned up our radios on incident "body alarm" calls for officer assistance to make sure we knew what was going on. Inmates got loud during incidents so we turned up the volume. DOJ never issued us ear pieces.
King supers is an echo box by design. I often heard other customers conversations in the Isles over form where I was at in those stores. The Echo is obvious. No privacy there.
There is a simple compromise between offer safety and public awareness. Dispatch the initial call in the clear on PD main 1 so the public is aware of the imitate danger(s). Then if the call warrants an encrypted channel response request during that initial dispatch announce that the units respond on an encrypted TAC channel if such situation warrants it.
Police can be dispatched to calls just like the fire department does in Colorado Springs with out the need to encrypt a main dispatch channel. If there is a notable CSFD fire dispatch incident that warrants switching to a fire command channel they dispatch it as such on main channel and immediately state "working house fire at XYZ address, respond on command 4".
Example: In a warranted police scenario, such as an active shooter, domestic, Person on ETOH/drugs treating to kill someone, PTSD veteran call with weapons known an encrypted Tac or a "command 4' channel in this case could be initially assigned at dispatch from the start and put the officers on an encrypted talk group PRIOR to them getting in to the mix of things. The "mix of things" causes tunnel vision and a lessened sense of motor skills movement on how you would respond.
Its one reason police argue that "officers who get in the mix of trouble lose they ability (motor skills) to switch their radios to alternate channels during the fight.
Well, if you dispatch the high risk call initially and have them change radio frequencies PRIOR to arriving and getting "in the fight" its works well.
On a side note. Major area PDs who encrypted: Pueblo encrypted back in early 2004 (or so). Surrounding Pueblo areas encrypted right after (Fremont county). Denver encrypted a few years back. Local Denver cities encrypted right after. Douglas county and surrounding areas encrypted. North/North West Denver cities encrypted shortly after (Parker PD and Castle Rock).
Boulder is next I'll bet. Listen while you can!
King supers is an echo box by design. I often heard other customers conversations in the Isles over form where I was at in those stores. The Echo is obvious. No privacy there.
There is a simple compromise between offer safety and public awareness. Dispatch the initial call in the clear on PD main 1 so the public is aware of the imitate danger(s). Then if the call warrants an encrypted channel response request during that initial dispatch announce that the units respond on an encrypted TAC channel if such situation warrants it.
Police can be dispatched to calls just like the fire department does in Colorado Springs with out the need to encrypt a main dispatch channel. If there is a notable CSFD fire dispatch incident that warrants switching to a fire command channel they dispatch it as such on main channel and immediately state "working house fire at XYZ address, respond on command 4".
Example: In a warranted police scenario, such as an active shooter, domestic, Person on ETOH/drugs treating to kill someone, PTSD veteran call with weapons known an encrypted Tac or a "command 4' channel in this case could be initially assigned at dispatch from the start and put the officers on an encrypted talk group PRIOR to them getting in to the mix of things. The "mix of things" causes tunnel vision and a lessened sense of motor skills movement on how you would respond.
Its one reason police argue that "officers who get in the mix of trouble lose they ability (motor skills) to switch their radios to alternate channels during the fight.
Well, if you dispatch the high risk call initially and have them change radio frequencies PRIOR to arriving and getting "in the fight" its works well.
On a side note. Major area PDs who encrypted: Pueblo encrypted back in early 2004 (or so). Surrounding Pueblo areas encrypted right after (Fremont county). Denver encrypted a few years back. Local Denver cities encrypted right after. Douglas county and surrounding areas encrypted. North/North West Denver cities encrypted shortly after (Parker PD and Castle Rock).
Boulder is next I'll bet. Listen while you can!
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danesgs
Member
It saddens me to read a lot of this about media misuse and ratings being the driving point to reporting nowadays. My father was "The voice of the hurricanes" for WGBS in Miami FL. in the 1960's. He was an honest factual reporter and newsman so much that if there was any doubt about a story he refused to run with it. News outlets today are more about scooping the story which also causes their sponsors to get more look sees both on TV and the net.
Spencer Eads Danes
Gone are the days when getting the story really was all about verifiable sources that were 100 percent credible. Sorry if I am off topic a bit.
Spencer Eads Danes
Gone are the days when getting the story really was all about verifiable sources that were 100 percent credible. Sorry if I am off topic a bit.
RFI-EMI-GUY
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News sure has changed. First it was cable news, then news had to be a "profit center". Now the Internet is the "source" and often it is just propaganda served up as fact. Local news outlets no longer have reporters roaming for a story. I have heard news worthy stuff on my local police scanner that never makes it to the TV.
danesgs
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Small town reporters in rural areas may be what's left of real reporting but I think they might get pushed aside for bigger news sources that are not even there that have opinions that people would more likely follow. What really burns me is local news stations that cover local news really well but sometimes just don't do any follow up on the facts to a story...…sigh
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