Unknown school buses on 151.835 in Oneida County

[Disp46]

As a new thread off of the Hamilton College discussion it’s has been noted that there are operations in DMR mode on 151.835 in Oneida County. The signal was on CC 1 Slot 1 TG 1 and was clearly school bus activity with strong signal strength on a portable receiver in the Westmoreland/Oriskany area. Unit ID’s were 1 and 4000.

Obviously this is non-licensed operations and 151.835 is a repeater output frequency.

 

[R0am3r]

As a new thread off of the Hamilton College discussion it’s has been noted that there are operations in DMR mode on 151.835 in Oneida County. The signal was on CC 1 Slot 1 TG 1 and was clearly school bus activity with strong signal strength on a portable receiver in the Westmoreland/Oriskany area. Unit ID’s were 1 and 4000.

Obviously this is non-licensed operations and 151.835 is a repeater output frequency.

@Disp46 - I believe the buses I am monitoring on 151.835 are from Central Square in Oswego County. The geography clues include conversations about Hastings, Rt 49, Rt 84, and Rt 11. The users on the system often refer the buses as CS something (e.g. CS441). I can confirm the radios are using CC1|TG1|SL1 with the UIDs of 1 and 4000. The problem - I can't find a FCC license for these users. Maybe I'm overlooking it.

 

[Disp46]

@Disp46 - I believe the buses I am monitoring on 151.835 are from Central Square in Oswego County. The geography clues include conversations about Hastings, Rt 49, Rt 84, and Rt 11. The users on the system often refer the buses as CS something (e.g. CS441). I can confirm the radios are using CC1|TG1|SL1 with the UIDs of 1 and 4000. The problem - I can't find a FCC license for these users. Maybe I'm overlooking it.

That’s exactly what I’m hearing, everything you described including the CS unit ID’s in the Westmoreland area crystal clear and indoors on a handheld radio with the rubber ducky antenna. I was hoping to also hear some local references like road or school names. I am shocked that if it is Central Square that I’m picking it up so clearly indoors with a handheld in Central Oneida County. Word to whoever it is… get an FCC license please!

 

[MegaHertz315]

Okay folks, I have the answer to this discussion, and will put it to rest for you

As a current driver for the district for 17 years, I do have some knowledgeable information to pass along.

#1. We are NOT communicating "non-licensed operations."

#2. We DO have a FCC license!

The issue is... the INPUT frequency to Hamilton College's frequency of 151.835 MHz is 159.6225 MHz. Hamilton College is using 151.835 in DMR mode, with a CC of 1.

Here at C Square, our INPUT frequency to our tower in C Square is........ 159.6225 MHz ! FCC Callsign WRFC481. SAME input frequency to Hamilton College's repeater of 151.835! And we also use DMR, CC 1.

Do to the size of our district, we have 3 repeaters linked together. FCC licenses WRFC481, WNAK269 & simplex on KVG416

The real problem here is we have (two) close proximity FCC users using the same input frequency, on the same DMR color code.

We contract with a local radio shop for all installation, sales & service of our two-way communications. That would be something we (as a district) pay the local radio shop to deal with.

As far as our comm's coming through on 151.835.... that's between the local radio shops that we pay, to solve

Seems as if a simple change in color code would solve the problem.

I could always try and say something to someone... but you know how it goes... what do I know!

 

[Disp46]

@MegaHertz315 Thank you so much for that explanation. That would perfectly explain why we are hearing it near Westmoreland so clearly and coming through Hamilton’s DMR repeater. Who would have ever thought this would happen?

 

[R0am3r]

Thanks Len for clearing this! As far as I can tell, Hamilton College is pretty much on 151.5275. I don't recall seeing any of their TGs on their second frequency. Crazy stuff.

 

[k2hz]

@MegaHertz315 Thank you so much for that explanation. That would perfectly explain why we are hearing it near Westmoreland so clearly and coming through Hamilton’s DMR repeater. Who would have ever thought this would happen?

The moral of the story is - If you are on a shared business channel use the CC feature as intended and don't leave it on default CC 1 when you program the system!

 

[k2hz]

If Hamilton is using different TGs than CS they probably don't hear them and don't realize it is keying up their repeater so no incentive to fix it.

 

[DaveNF2G]

I wonder if both systems were coordinated before licensing.

 

[k2hz]

I wonder if both systems were coordinated before licensing.

Frequency Coordination is mandatory but does not address any "tone" issues and only minimizes interference. Other than "FB8" licenses for trunking it does not provide an exclusive use channel. VHF does not have frequency pairs for repeaters so the situation is more complicated than the higher bands. So there could even be a nearby repeater output on your input. That is not the case here where it is simply a common input frequency.

These are FB2 licenses so multiple co-channel users are to be expected on Business channels. Careful selection of the Color Code would have been prudent rather than the default CC 1. The systems are far enough apart to co-exist if they did not use the same Color Code.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Hamilton College and the Westmoreland Thruway exit are just over 5 miles apart. That is nowhere close to the frequency re-use distance for the band.

 

[k2hz]

Hamilton College and the Westmoreland Thruway exit are just over 5 miles apart. That is nowhere close to the frequency re-use distance for the band.

That makes no sense. What does Westmoreland Thruway exit have to do with Central Square school buses?

 

[k2hz]

To summarize the situation - Central Square school buses are being heard with a strong signal in the Westmoreland area which is from the Hamilton repeater. @MegaHertz315 reported it is a known issue. The Hamilton College and CS repeaters use the same input frequency and Color Code so CS buses are heard on the Hamilton repeater. The systems are about 25 miles or more apart but it is an open path over Oneida Lake so not unusual to hear the distant units but local units should override with no problem if proper coded squelch (different color codes) were used.

 

[DaveNF2G]

That makes no sense. What does Westmoreland Thruway exit have to do with Central Square school buses?

"That would perfectly explain why we are hearing it near Westmoreland"