Unlicensed GMRS Operators

[needairtime]

Well, that's the thing, if I used my ham callsign on FRS 15-22, then someone says that's not a GMRS license, I can't come back with a GMRS license because I don't have one -- nor need one on FRS!

Luckily I suppose my transmit power on FRS would be so low that likely nobody will hear... as they say if a tree falls and nobody is around to hear it, did it make a sound?

 

[Hans13]

Well, that's the thing, if I used my ham callsign on FRS 15-22, then someone says that's not a GMRS license, I can't come back with a GMRS license because I don't have one -- nor need one on FRS!

Since, AFAIK, there is no prohibition on making up your own callsign on license-by-rule, then it would be perfectly permissible to use your amateur radio service callsign on FRS. It has the same meaning as any; specifically none.

Luckily I suppose my transmit power on FRS would be so low that likely nobody will hear... as they say if a tree falls and nobody is around to hear it, did it make a sound?

LOL

You'd be surprised at what some of us that scan those services all of our free hours hear from those low wattage transmitters.

 

[swen_out_west]

Swen_out_west had a really bad go of it. I remember when he first started posting about his experiences. They were apparently brutal to him in his location. I felt genuinely bad for the guy. Nobody should have to endure that, IMHO.

On the flip-side , I personally see setting a tone and then just transmitting with high power without regard for existing traffic on a channel as negligent interference. If someone does it to get other traffic to move channels, I would consider that malicious interference. I always consider FRS users as on equal access entitlement as GMRS (of course, with repeaters, that's almost impossible due to many current FRS low power transmit). It's a judgement call for myself and those in my family. I trained them to open squelch or watch the busy light before transmitting with tone squelch set. I almost set busy channel lockout on our repeater for the same reason but realized that with some of the local jammers, they would quickly use it to make the repeater useless.

I tried not commenting on this but it's not in my nature.

So you're saying that a 2 watt FRS radio has the same rights as a licensed GMRS user legally allowed to run 50 watts and trying to be as respectful and legal as possible. I do open the squelch up as much as possible and as I have mentioned in the past I have many users legitimately using FRS radios on the same channel and make room for them as much as possible.

The hypocrisy and double standards I have met with is amazing. I just love the comment I had with one of the top Hams in town a couple of months back regarding the two who come on and harass, purposely jam and spout White Supremacy B.S, using their ham rigs running 50 watts (no they do not have a GMRS license, they still believe their HAM license allows them to), 'GMRS/FRS is a good place for them would you rather have them acting like that on HAM frequencies." The answer is yes, GMRS is a licensed service just like Amateur and Business Band frequencies.

But yes, there are times that I have to enable DCS and just go. Between frick and frack, as well as, the garbage from the FRS kids I shouldn't have to stop using to make way for them. I am using one out of 8 channels and have intentionally stayed on one and only one. There are 7 others they can play on. not to mention 14 other FRS channels. But it isn't an issue of using that channel, it's an issue of wanting to harass and act like idiots and the best way I have discovered to stop it is to enable CTCSS/DCS and just roll on. I daily change codes on my repeater to keep them off track.

I am not doing anything illegal by doing it, it was actually suggested by the FCC. It took a while (over a year) but eventually the tactic of "Don't feed the trolls" worked. Now I can actually turn my DCS off at times and listen for legitimate users.

 

[Hans13]

So you're saying that a 2 watt FRS radio has the same rights as a licensed GMRS user legally allowed to run 50 watts and trying to be as respectful and legal as possible.

Unless their is something in the regulations to the contrary, 2 watt FRS users and GMRS users have the same privileges, with respect to priority, in the service. I answered that already in https://forums.radioreference.com/threads/unlicensed-gmrs-operators.377625/page-2#post-3039506

I am not doing anything illegal by doing it, it was actually suggested by the FCC. It took a while (over a year) but eventually the tactic of "Don't feed the trolls" worked. Now I can actually turn my DCS off at times and listen for legitimate users.

That was a suggestion to deal with others operating outside of regulations on the service. If FRS users were operating within regulations, it would be wrong (and technically illegal) for you to intentionally interfere with them as they have, AFAIK, the same priority on their allotted frequencies as any GMRS user. If they operate outside of regulations, they lose their equal priority status.

 

[Hans13]

But yes, there are times that I have to enable DCS and just go. Between frick and frack, as well as, the garbage from the FRS kids I shouldn't have to stop using to make way for them.

If they were using the frequency, you then would be intentionally interfering because you "shouldn't have to stop using to make way for them." If they are already using the frequency and you intentionally do this then you are the one interfering. If you are already using the frequency and they do this to you then they are interfering. We are to share the frequencies. You were mentioning hypocrisy... To intentionally transmit over another who was already legitimately using a frequency because they need to make way for you is hypocritical.

 

[swen_out_west]

If they were using the frequency, you then would be intentionally interfering because you "shouldn't have to stop using to make way for them." If they are already using the frequency and you intentionally do this then you are the one interfering. If you are already using the frequency and they do this to you then they are interfering. We are to share the frequencies. You were mentioning hypocrisy... To intentionally transmit over another who was already legitimately using a frequency because they need to make way for you is hypocritical.

I try to make way and as I've mentioned there are many others that use the channel with codes as well and I do not interfere with them, I share with legitimate users. The FCC went out of the way to mention during the rule change that FRS may receive unintentional interference by higher power licensed GMRS, I have gone out of the way for legitimate users even before the rule change. I never intentional interfere with a legitamate user. As part of the sharing I have purposely stayed on one channel only, because I know my 50 watt radios/repeater step on people.

Way to twist the word hypocrite back on me. I was referring to the hatred I get simply by stating a fact. The majority of illegal activity that causes real interference on the GMRS band is done by people who think they are above the regs on GMRS/FRS and just so happen to be licensed HAMS as well. If people can't handle the truth, that not all HAMS are decent people, oh well.

 

[swen_out_west]

The quote 'shouldn't have to stop using to make way for them' was taken out of context'. Try quoting the entire sentence.

"Between frick and frack, as well as, the garbage from the FRS kids I shouldn't have to stop using to make way for them."

By garbage, just today in trying to disable my DCS in trying to live up to your better than me radio etiquette, I got 3 minutes of nothing but an FRS radio call tone, as I was trying to converse with my girlfriend on the highway 15 miles away. Followed by "Is she sucking your ----, by what sounded like a 10 year old. So guess what I hit the Mon button and problem solved.

 

[Hans13]

@swen_out_west Dude, I wasn't trying to twist anything. Hopefully this isn't how you approached people in your AO. That might explain some of your local feud. I was trying to point out that, from another point of view, what you were describing was hypocritical.

Anyone operating under the regulations have just as much privilege to the frequencies as you. Intentionally not sharing with them is interfering.

 

[Hans13]

The FCC went out of the way to mention during the rule change that FRS may receive unintentional interference by higher power licensed GMRS, I have gone out of the way for legitimate users even before the rule change.

That is because a higher power GMRS station would not typically hear the lower power FRS. That isn't about priority. that is about physics.

Please post specifically where GMRS has priority over FRS in the regulations.

I never intentional interfere with a legitamate user. As part of the sharing I have purposely stayed on one channel only, because I know my 50 watt radios/repeater step on people.

Good. We are supposed to share.

You questioned priority on the frequencies. I pointed out that I know of nowhere in the regulations that GMRS has priority over FRS. If someone were to point that out, I would then know the viewpoint was mistaken.

Way to twist the word hypocrite back on me. I was referring to the hatred I get simply by stating a fact. The majority of illegal activity that causes real interference on the GMRS band is done by people who think they are above the regs on GMRS/FRS and just so happen to be licensed HAMS as well. If people can't handle the truth, that not all HAMS are decent people, oh well.

I didn't take your initial post that way. It seemed hypocritical to me. Also, you seem a bit paranoid as to the intentions of others. I have no desire to twist your words. I know that you had a terrible experience and people in your AO did you wrong. That doesn't translate into everyone being like that.

So I don't misunderstand your words here, are you implying that I think this way?
"If people can't handle the truth, that not all HAMS are decent people, oh well."

 

[Hans13]

By garbage, just today in trying to disable my DCS in trying to live up to your better than me radio etiquette, I got 3 minutes of nothing but an FRS radio call tone, as I was trying to converse with my girlfriend on the highway 15 miles away. Followed by "Is she sucking your ----, by what sounded like a 10 year old. So guess what I hit the Mon button and problem solved.

What??? I don't even know what is up with this passive-aggressive nonsense. You asked about priority and I gave an answer. How that translates into "your better than me radio etiquette" is beyond me.

If you have the text stating GMRS has priority then please post it.

 

[swen_out_west]

You are right. I get very defensive since what I have had to put up with by people who are also licensed Hams. I wasn't trying to say you. Anyways, signing off and deleting my option to have posts put into my email since we are delving into personal attacks.

 

[Hans13]

You are right. I get very defensive since what I have had to put up with by people who are also licensed Hams. I wasn't trying to say you. Anyways, signing off and deleting my option to have posts put into my email since we are delving into personal attacks.

I understand and I am sorry about what you have had to endure in your AO. They sound like real jerks.

Take care.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Sven.
If they are interfering deliberately and engaging in blatantly illegal or potentially dubious activities you could record them for the authorities to sort out. I recommend Scanner Recorder 1.9. By Dave Jacobs. (ScanRec) I don't think it is supported any longer but it is easy to set up in a computer and has VOX operation. Free to download.

Also if you are primarily operating simplex , you might want to change your channels often, - like every day. Frankly, I would just fully engage DCS squelch and not even bother monitoring for them. At this point they are just "noise".

You could also get a Part 90 business license if you can show a business justification (pretty easy to do) and then you can get some DMR equipment with encryption.

Thankfully where I am at, the biggest nuisance are the incessant rodger beeps. I like to monitor, especially during storms, but mostly I hear those over and over with no intelligence behind them.

 

[Hans13]

If you have seen his previous posts, he fought and fought to no avail. It's damned unfortunate that a group of radio operators have chosen to treat him that way. I've conversed with him before and he's a nice guy.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I would record that nonsense and put it up on the local social media and Youtube.

Hey Mom, click here to hear what little Johnny is really saying on his walkie talkie.

or

Click here to listen to Billy Bob, the local self proclaimed Nazi. Do you recognize the voice?

 

[dfw1193]

I had completely forgotten about the FCC’s regulation changes to FRS & GMRS from last year. Regardless, if they’re on simplex I wouldn’t worry about it to be honest. Whether they’re using more RF power or something else that’s against regulation, the FCC will not get involved if their on simplex. Especially if they’re not interfering with enough people to draw the FCC’s attention. Once in a blue moon the enforcement agents will pick up a complaint involving one of the Personal Radio Services and those are usually ones involving repeater interference.


-Dawson Adams
K4DPA / WQPN413

Government shutdown they can do what they want now they got a free pass.

 

[graywoulf]

Deleted