Update on Toronto Public Safety Network

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bigcam406

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great find! so i guess the switch to digital is inevitable.3 year project and 70 mill? so the next question is if its going to be encrypted......
 

exkalibur

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Well, we know this much for sure:

It'll be P25 Phase 1, which is what a 396/PSR can monitor.

This is the good news. Encryption is likely a certain bet for Police...
 

vabiro

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Nothing has been updated yet. The feed you listen to is most likely down for whatever reason.
"...commencing on or about March 1, 2010"

That would be the beginning of the development of the project planning including the development of the procurement process.

I have done project management on projects of this size, and this is going to take some time. If they aren't looking for a PM for the implementation then this could be a while.(i.e. >1yr.)

So, I'm adding a digital scanner to the family budget for 2011.:lol:

Victor
 

vabiro

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There is a thread in the Community Announcements section that is related to the use of digital in Fire and Fire Ground applications.

The consensus amongst the people that set the standards (PDF) for Fire Fighter's equipment are unimpressed with digital modulation in Fire Ground Communications. Something about the codec (DVSI?) used in P25 being crummy for the really noisy environments, and where the breathing equipment is used.

Given the consensus amongst fire depts about the issue of digital modulation in fire ground environments, I don't think we'll see TFS using P25.

Victor
 
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mciupa

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Given the consensus amongst fire depts about the issue of digital modulation in fire ground environments, I don't think we'll see TFS using P25.
Victor
Nevertheless, they are included in the project, here is a snip from the document (underlined for emphasis):

For this Project, Fire, in conjunction with TPS and EMS, is procuring and implementing a mission-critical voice radio communications system. The new system will be standards based, complying with the P25 Phase 1 suite of standards
 

exkalibur

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If they switch to a P25 system - that is - a 9600 system like GO Transit, they won't have a choice but be digital.

You cannot use analog on those systems.

I HAD heard a rumour however, that TFS was going to keep 3C08 running for TFS, but with reduced channels.

But, that'd be pretty expensive...
 

polkaroo

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yay more needless useless speculation:

TFS can always go something like FleetNet... analog portables and all apparatus have a repeater so first on scene flips it on.
 

newtoscanning

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Since fire uses fire ground channels, can the 800mhz simplex channels not be analogue that would link back into a p25 trunk?
 

vabiro

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Since fire uses fire ground channels, can the 800mhz simplex channels not be analogue that would link back into a p25 trunk?
That is similar to what is being done today with the TPS system:

FGround =>Vehicle Repeater=>Trunking TG

The problem is with the codec that is used to digitize the voice audio. Apparently, the audio quality when made digital is very bad. Dangerously so according to the IAFF.

Having said that, if the fire ground operations are all being done using the analogue vehicle repeater that may not necessarily be as big of an issue. Those monitoring the FG operations on the digital (P25) system may not be able to understand the firefighter, but those on the scene may. However, I'm not sure if that is adequate.

They may require that Toronto Fire dispatch and responding vehicles need to understand what is going on on the scene. That would make sence, since they usually patch the FG to a tactical channel so that it goes out over the Talk Group to other vehicles and TF dispatch.

Victor
 

newtoscanning

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If you look through TPS's 2010 budget doing a quick tally it would appear that 70M is reasonably budgeted towards end-user hardware replacement and system infrastructure.

Also an interesting tidbit about the TTC Special Constables, as well as a project to make POT's electronic (like parking). A good 70 page read if your bored at work.
 
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