I just saw there were updates made to the database for North County Fire in San Diego county it shows the DEC. 80 for north zone tac 3 and 112 for north zone tac 4 is this right or were some numbers forgot?
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Updates made to North County,San Diego county
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That's what they gave us. I've noticed some really low numbered new talkgroups are showing up on the RCS in recent submissions. Can anyone more familiar with North County JPA dispatch (or just SD RCS North Zone in general) comment or verify?
Thanks,
Inigo
Thanks,
Inigo
North Zone Tacs 3 and 4 are lower because they are analog. North Zone Tacs 1 and 2 are digital. The digital/analog partition seems to have moved up to around 28800, with DEC numbers higher being digital, probably due to future growth that may lean toward digial. It used to be talkgroups higher than 32752 were digital.
It's because they're running out of analog TGs. A long time ago permanent analog TG assignments started at the NMA TG's. There were a few below them that were used temporarily for some organizations (CALTRANS, a school district) and for try-out radios.
I can help you as I am intimately familiar with the fleetmap and North Zone use. NZT1 and NZT2 are indeed digital. NZT3 AND NZT4 are analog.
All four TGs are under Zone (NorthComm) control. They are not however, TACs, they are to be used as training talkgroups ("NZ Training 1-4").
Also, there are NorthComm "alternate, or overflow" TG's contained within Zone 2 (ES-Escondido) portion of the map. They are NCM 2L, NCM 2M, and NCM 2N. In addtion, Travel 2-K, is the designated in-county travel TG for all North Zone resources.
All four TGs are under Zone (NorthComm) control. They are not however, TACs, they are to be used as training talkgroups ("NZ Training 1-4").
Also, there are NorthComm "alternate, or overflow" TG's contained within Zone 2 (ES-Escondido) portion of the map. They are NCM 2L, NCM 2M, and NCM 2N. In addtion, Travel 2-K, is the designated in-county travel TG for all North Zone resources.
Gee, I'm not aware of any shortage of analog TGs (there's less than 2000 TGs in use on the system, and there are more than 2000 TG IDs available in the analog partition). We purely made a decision to use previously unused low numbers.
Don
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Judging by what's assigned in the database I wouldn't call what's available a large pool. You did run out of digital talkgroups hence the change of the third partition to digital (700-7FF) because I know it used to be 4x4. I see 021 to 031 available and then random unused or reused throughout the analog partitions.
Anyone can do a List All talkgroups and see that you're reaching maximum capacity. Given your position I'd figure you would know so I think it's how one determines "running out of".
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SkipSanders
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There are 4094 available 'talkgroups' on the system. 2 more are dedicated 'system' groups.
No, there's no shortage of talkgroups. There aren't always places to put new groups 'with' the older groups of an agency, but there's plenty of groups.
There are only 1520 groups listed on Radio Reference. I know of about 20 'unknown' groups as well. The system person's statement that they have less than 2000 groups is well within reality. Leaving over 2000 more talkgroups available. There are less than a thousand 'known' analog groups.
Wayne, were you thinking the system uses 'every 32' talkgroups? If so, you're wrong, it uses 'every 16' talkgroups, for double the number 'most' systems use.
No, there's no shortage of talkgroups. There aren't always places to put new groups 'with' the older groups of an agency, but there's plenty of groups.
There are only 1520 groups listed on Radio Reference. I know of about 20 'unknown' groups as well. The system person's statement that they have less than 2000 groups is well within reality. Leaving over 2000 more talkgroups available. There are less than a thousand 'known' analog groups.
Wayne, were you thinking the system uses 'every 32' talkgroups? If so, you're wrong, it uses 'every 16' talkgroups, for double the number 'most' systems use.
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Skip, I don't think you understand how Motorola systems organize talkgroups. TGs when organized as digital or analog fall in to ranges on the system. The admin does not determine on a one-on-one basis whether a talkgroup is digital or analog. Typically these ranges follow the standard partition formatting Type I used, which is eight partitions, $*00(0)-$*FF(0). In laymen's (scannerist's) terms for TGs this is:
P0: 16 - 8176
P1: 8192 - 16368
P2: 16384 - 24560
P3: 24576 - 32752
P4: 32768 - 40944
P5: 40960 - 49136
P6: 49152 - 57328
P7: 57344 - 65504
These full ranges are only valid when digital is used. If you assign analog talkgroups and you use Priority Scanning, which the RCS does use, you may only use half the number ("every 32") per partition. At the moment the RCS is configured to use three partitions for analog and five (or three?) for digital. That is not equal to 4,094. That is roughly 2,560 digital TGs if using five partitions and roughly 766 analog if using three. Now considering this is an 800 system the TG range 8128-8176 may not be assigned for certain reasons. Look in the database and you'll see this gap.
The question is what the last two partitions are assigned for. They used to be digital but now could have been reassigned to analog. Only Don knows. But if assigned to analog that gives you around 500 more. So, OK, not exactly a shortage but at the rate the RCS assigns stuff it could be soon.
P0: 16 - 8176
P1: 8192 - 16368
P2: 16384 - 24560
P3: 24576 - 32752
P4: 32768 - 40944
P5: 40960 - 49136
P6: 49152 - 57328
P7: 57344 - 65504
These full ranges are only valid when digital is used. If you assign analog talkgroups and you use Priority Scanning, which the RCS does use, you may only use half the number ("every 32") per partition. At the moment the RCS is configured to use three partitions for analog and five (or three?) for digital. That is not equal to 4,094. That is roughly 2,560 digital TGs if using five partitions and roughly 766 analog if using three. Now considering this is an 800 system the TG range 8128-8176 may not be assigned for certain reasons. Look in the database and you'll see this gap.
The question is what the last two partitions are assigned for. They used to be digital but now could have been reassigned to analog. Only Don knows. But if assigned to analog that gives you around 500 more. So, OK, not exactly a shortage but at the rate the RCS assigns stuff it could be soon.
Wayne is correct about the layout of the TGs. In reviewing the RR database for our system, I see a LOT of errors and a lot of reserved-but-never-used analog TGs listed.
TG range 8128-8176 is not assigned.
Wayne, we're just about out of agencies in the two counties to join the system, so the rate of add isn't that great.
Don
Alright Don. I don't mean to be a PITA and appreciate your participation here. It's great to know you have a handle on the system that your *ahem* predecessors did not.
I don't mean to be a PITA and appreciate your participation here. It's great to know you have a handle on the system that your *ahem* predecessors did not.
Alright Don.
Not a problem, Wayne.
Don
monitor142
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You are always a wealth of information Wayne. You've given me some good pointers over the years for a small analog SmartNet system I run in the county north of Don's. You never read or hear about these types of things when your are in Schaumburg at the Circle /\/\ ranch.
Thanks!
Brian
Thanks!
Brian
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