US Export Restrictions related to this forum

[kb4cvn]

Document Export Restrictions

If sharing information with others, please keep in mind some documents, especially technical documentation or software (including flashcode & dsp), can be subject to export restrictions by the United States Government.

Therefore, any sharing of export restricted material by: surface mail, FAX, E-Mail or electronic method (FTP, drop-box, etc.) to outside the United States is considered the export of technology.

Most, if not all Harris PSPC documentation is covered by this export restriction. The website contains a warning slide when you log-in, and each and every document contains this warning printed in the first few pages.



ATTN. MODERATOR: You might considering keeping this as a 'sticky'.

 

[szron]

5E991 "Technology" for the "development",
"production"or"use" of equipment controlled
by 5A991 or 5B991, or "software" controlled
by 5D991, and other “technologies” as follows

Control(s) Country Chart
AT applies to entire entry AT Column 1

Commerce Control group AT (Anti Terrorism) 1 includes:
Cuba, Iran, DPRK, Sudan

I'm gonna go on a whim here that information here isn't routinely transmitted through those countries. Not that some people from those countries wouldn't use the information found on this site against the US but I don't think we have to scare people into thinking they are breaking US Commerce Regulations just yet

 

[VE3RADIO]

I had an eBay seller who wouldn't sell me a XG-75 because it had AES in it.. for goodness sake I am in Canada and can buy AES right from Harris.

 

[prcguy]

People do it every day and have no clue they are breaking the law. Your 1960s vintage US Military PRC-77 radio Ebay auction ends and the buyer is in Japan. Ship it there and men in suits can arrive at your door and ruin your day if not a big chunk of your life.

Not only is current, modern military radios, firmware, manuals, etc considered "munitions" and shipment outside the US is restricted, pretty much any military electronics made in the last 75yrs can get you in hot water if you ship it outside the US without an export license from the US Dept of State.
prcguy

Commerce Control group AT (Anti Terrorism) 1 includes:
Cuba, Iran, DPRK, Sudan

I'm gonna go on a whim here that information here isn't routinely transmitted through those countries. Not that some people from those countries wouldn't use the information found on this site against the US but I don't think we have to scare people into thinking they are breaking US Commerce Regulations just yet

 

[VE3RADIO]

People do it every day and have no clue they are breaking the law. Your 1960s vintage US Military PRC-77 radio Ebay auction ends and the buyer is in Japan. Ship it there and men in suits can arrive at your door and ruin your day if not a big chunk of your life.

America has a lot of silly laws (especially copyright law).

Being a country of your own of course the United States can do as it pleases and make whatever laws it wants.. just glad I don't have to abide by any of them living up here in Canada.

I cant help but think about all the people who have lost it all for downloading game of thrones or something silly like that.. I had heard about people getting in trouble for buying those ancient Harris PRC radios.. but never heard of anyone outside the US getting crap.. since the laws don't apply.

 

[VE3RADIO]

I guess the people over at P25 have been getting a lot of trouble about this stuff lately.. So I guess its a good warning for anyone here not to bother with eBay or encryption capable radios..

 

[SCPD]

Tyranny. Anything typed on a website that is viewed anywhere in the world could be considered to fall under this. I find it bogus just some guys bored office decisions to target the normal folks. What's next HAM fests to be raided by ICE/DHS? The HAM radio operator driving with antennas pulled over at gun point for having equipment and a amature radio plate? What is interesting is some if not all Motorola to other manufacturers gear is made outside the USA and exported/imported with modules and such and even when items go to overhaul and depots they are sent to a general location then sent outbound to be serviced sometimes from the agency or company with codeplug and module inside and return to those eventually. I guess unless your a multi billion dollar company who can pay to write laws it does not apply to you or agencies such as NPS who have technicians who send gear to the depot which is outside of the USA to be serviced containing modules in them. Yeah it may be Motorola and a depot for Motorola but come on you tell me are those places employing legit people and people who do not filter items or data out of the plants? Same goes for China.

 

[prcguy]

What you describe has happened to some extent. I know someone who had a modern SINCGARS radio on display at the Dayton Hamvention but the radio was a special version without Type 1 encryption that was sold to mfrs who dealt with SINCGARS accys. A man from some Govt agency inspected the radio, claimed it was contraband and insisted on confiscating the radio.

My friend held his ground and tried to explain that it didn't contain any sensitive encryption but the idiot agency guy was apparently too stupid to understand. He eventually went away after my friend indicated he would protect his property with deadly force if needed and the radio was removed from display and no further problems occurred.

I've also been approached at the Dayton Hamvention by two men that asked to see the green radio I was carrying, then they both pulled out the exact same note pads and short little pencils and started scribbling down all the info from the data plate on my radio. The were obviously not radio enthusiasts but from some law enforcement or US Govt agency.

In one way its good that people are keeping an eye out for stolen Govt property or equipment that should never have been surplussed due to sensitive crypto, but some of the people tasked with looking for this equipment are downright stupid and have no clue what they are looking for and go after harmless and legal to own equipment.
prcguy

Tyranny. Anything typed on a website that is viewed anywhere in the world could be considered to fall under this. I find it bogus just some guys bored office decisions to target the normal folks. What's next HAM fests to be raided by ICE/DHS? The HAM radio operator driving with antennas pulled over at gun point for having equipment and a amature radio plate? What is interesting is some if not all Motorola to other manufacturers gear is made outside the USA and exported/imported with modules and such and even when items go to overhaul and depots they are sent to a general location then sent outbound to be serviced sometimes from the agency or company with codeplug and module inside and return to those eventually. I guess unless your a multi billion dollar company who can pay to write laws it does not apply to you or agencies such as NPS who have technicians who send gear to the depot which is outside of the USA to be serviced containing modules in them. Yeah it may be Motorola and a depot for Motorola but come on you tell me are those places employing legit people and people who do not filter items or data out of the plants? Same goes for China.

 

[SCPD]

Stolen gear being looked for I can understand. Anyone in the radio business is usually in favor of this and stolen gear is frowned upon when bought or sold. What makes me ponder is when documents to pdf files on tech specs and such are made available through dealers or the company itself made available to tell world from its direct site yet a third party has a copy and the government itself comes in saying your exporting documents meanwhile the creator of the equipment is posting it to be viewed by world or download themself. Most the times half the tech documents are available from outside countries and people read or download not exporting anything. What actually brought this about did people or someone actually get hit with something? Ebay or a site? Last i recall p25 never violated anything and always had disclaimers to very strict policies on things.

 

[VE3RADIO]

I was reading over there and apparently they have been getting grief from someone at DHS (or some other LEA).. not sure.. I don't think targeting HAM operators and hobby people is a great way to use resources.. but then again I am not in charge.

I believe P25 is run in Canada which is obviously outside the jurisdiction of the US.. that being said, If I was the owner I would probably just comply with the authorities so that I could continue to take trips to sunny Florida. The US has some silly laws that's for sure.. but then again maybe they are watching for someone who is selling stuff to Iran or something like that.. which I would applaud (watching that person.. to be clear lol).. I wouldn't want Iran or some other Middle Eastern country having access to American technology (or Canadian)

 

[prcguy]

I attended a military electronics show many years ago while working for the largest aerospace company in the US at the time. The USAF had a booth and was handing out various documents to anyone walking by and the show was full of military people from all around the world.

I picked up a book on digital communications technologies put together by the USAF that was stamped "Distribution authorized to US Government Agencies only" but they were handing them out to people from other countries. Looking through the book I found detailed info and diagrams on an early SDR transceiver program from the company I worked for and showed the book to my management. The information on the SDR transceiver was not only somewhat classified but also company propitiatory and should never have been shared with anyone.

My management immediately got on the phone to the USAF to see how and why the info was being publicly divulged and why sensitive information was being handed out to foreign nationals at a public gathering. I suspect the SHTF somewhere in the USAF but that just shows even the US Govt screws up and distributes classified info.
prcguy

Stolen gear being looked for I can understand. Anyone in the radio business is usually in favor of this and stolen gear is frowned upon when bought or sold. What makes me ponder is when documents to pdf files on tech specs and such are made available through dealers or the company itself made available to tell world from its direct site yet a third party has a copy and the government itself comes in saying your exporting documents meanwhile the creator of the equipment is posting it to be viewed by world or download themself. Most the times half the tech documents are available from outside countries and people read or download not exporting anything. What actually brought this about did people or someone actually get hit with something? Ebay or a site? Last i recall p25 never violated anything and always had disclaimers to very strict policies on things.

 

[Hans13]

Presumption of innocence. To go fishing for suspected stolen or otherwise controlled equipment, agents of government are supposed to have reasonable articulable suspicion OR have permission of the posessor of the property.

 

[SCPD]

Have read into it after looking a bit. I am not surprised IF what happened was related to a customs port of entry or exiting. Not sure but reminds of a time we had a work related function outside the state. Since after the meeting we were done and the weekend was upon after that day me and another took our own vehicle while the rest went in government vehicles since they were going back home after. Well this trip we had has a cbp inland customs ramp. One of the agents noticed a APX on the cup holder in console (portable APX). Boy the issue that got made about it. It had a little bump but since it was government and we were government employees with duties of it, it was swept under as fast as issue was made. After asking a couple persons in CBP brass who utilize a facility we have for training purposes we found the agent was new just assigned from a port entry terminal inland thus felt it was "contraband". I laughed and he laughed as well and nothing came of it. I'm just going out on a limb but is this what happened? Person traveling across a border had a couple items or so and a out to make a name agent decided hmmm this is suspicious? Then probing leading to more and trust me I know how speculations and assumptions are made such as "I don't have this and Joe blow doesn't have this it is suspicious to me" which led to course of someone probing into things then realizing no issue was existing so let's pry into the petty to justify what we did. If so totally insane. It wouldn't surprise me. I have seen before how US Customs and DHS at ports can be with the basic of things. Same as the 2 nieghboring countries which they have agents with so much time on hand they nick pick the craziest things to seize or find reason to and in event no reason exists they poke to find a reason to justify why they did what they did to those few using the powers and law pressing it to there advantage for whatever personal reason. I understand how things are enforced and need to be but I find more and more how this gets abused these days by a few while the majority actually do a decent job with duties in Custom etc.

 

[kb4cvn]

I had an eBay seller who wouldn't sell me a XG-75 because it had AES in it.. for goodness sake I am in Canada and can buy AES right from Harris.

Yes, you can purchase a radio from a Harris Dealer or eBay seller in Canada, simply because the radio is already there!

But to purchase a radio in/from the United States, which contains encryption, and then export it to Canada, requires a Munitions License from the US State Department for export.

Encryption is classified as a WEAPON OF WAR.
No different than a bomb, or a tank, or an explosive.
And is strictly regulated as such. With major fines and prison time for violations.

In the old days (pre-1985), encryption devices were machines. A physical device. Now, with the advent of computers, a very strong encryption program/utility can exist solely in software, and can be transmitted via e-mail, a website, or a File Transfer (FTP). The internet, and its international scope makes enforcement of restrictions very hard.

To see the US Government's response to an 'export' of encryption, you need to look no further that at Phil Zimmerman, and the case of PGP (Pretty Good Privacy). In 1991, he wrote the popular Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) program, and made it available (together with its source code) through public FTP for download, the first widely available program implementing public-key cryptography. Shortly thereafter, it became available overseas via the Internet, though Zimmermann has said he had no part in its distribution outside the United States.


Shortly afterwards, the United States Customs Service started a criminal investigation of Zimmermann, for allegedly violating the Arms Export Control Act. The United States Government had long regarded cryptographic software as a munition, and thus subject to arms trafficking export controls. At that time, the boundary between what cryptography was permitted ("low-strength") and impermissible ("high-strength") for export from the United States was placed such that PGP fell on the too-strong-to-export side of the boundary. The boundary for legal export has since been raised and now allows PGP to be exported. The investigation lasted three years, but was finally dropped without filing charges.

It should be noted that AES-256, which is in Harris portables and mobiles, is way beyond PGP in security level!

If the US Government can prove in court that someone [YOU] passed along export restricted material, it can become very bad for them (Felony charges). If they did the transfer knowingly, they can expect to spend quite a number of years in prison (Espionage).

 

[VE3RADIO]

Yes, you can purchase a radio from a Harris Dealer or eBay seller in Canada, simply because the radio is already there!

But to purchase a radio in/from the United States, which contains encryption, and then export it to Canada, requires a Munitions License from the US State Department for export.

Encryption is classified as a WEAPON OF WAR.
No different than a bomb, or a tank, or an explosive.
And is strictly regulated as such. With major fines and prison time for violations.

In the old days (pre-1985), encryption devices were machines. A physical device. Now, with the advent of computers, a very strong encryption program/utility can exist solely in software, and can be transmitted via e-mail, a website, or a File Transfer (FTP). The internet, and its international scope makes enforcement of restrictions very hard.

To see the US Government's response to an 'export' of encryption, you need to look no further that at Phil Zimmerman, and the case of PGP (Pretty Good Privacy). In 1991, he wrote the popular Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) program, and made it available (together with its source code) through public FTP for download, the first widely available program implementing public-key cryptography. Shortly thereafter, it became available overseas via the Internet, though Zimmermann has said he had no part in its distribution outside the United States.


Shortly afterwards, the United States Customs Service started a criminal investigation of Zimmermann, for allegedly violating the Arms Export Control Act. The United States Government had long regarded cryptographic software as a munition, and thus subject to arms trafficking export controls. At that time, the boundary between what cryptography was permitted ("low-strength") and impermissible ("high-strength") for export from the United States was placed such that PGP fell on the too-strong-to-export side of the boundary. The boundary for legal export has since been raised and now allows PGP to be exported. The investigation lasted three years, but was finally dropped without filing charges.

It should be noted that AES-256, which is in Harris portables and mobiles, is way beyond PGP in security level!

If the US Government can prove in court that someone [YOU] passed along export restricted material, it can become very bad for them (Felony charges). If they did the transfer knowingly, they can expect to spend quite a number of years in prison (Espionage).

So how does this work for a buyer who lives in say Canada or Australia who buys a radio off eBay and has it shipped to Canada... would not the seller be the exporter.. how does this law apply to the buyer? I am genuinely curious about that.. and would the radio not have to have that feature enabled? I'm not trying to be rude I am just not sure how it applies to a non-us citizen. I can understand the seller getting in trouble... just not a buyer... what government would expect the buyer who is not a US citizen to know the laws of the US?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[prcguy]

I have some "hobby" experience with this and its my opinion that as a buyer outside the US, you would only have to abide by your local laws in receiving a radio with high levels of encryption shipped from the US. The seller within the US would be breaking laws in shipping it to you without the proper export license.

If the radio contained something great enough to be classified as a threat to the US if it is in the wrong hands, then the US Govt might work with your Govt to get it back, but that would be an extreme case.
prcguy

So how does this work for a buyer who lives in say Canada or Australia who buys a radio off eBay and has it shipped to Canada... would not the seller be the exporter.. how does this law apply to the buyer? I am genuinely curious about that.. and would the radio not have to have that feature enabled? I'm not trying to be rude I am just not sure how it applies to a non-us citizen. I can understand the seller getting in trouble... just not a buyer... what government would expect the buyer who is not a US citizen to know the laws of the US?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[kb4cvn]

So how does this work for a buyer who lives in say Canada or Australia who buys a radio off eBay and has it shipped to Canada... <snip>

I can't honestly say. Never personally been involved with, or even heard of that situation.

BTW: Whenever I traveled, and had to ship commo equipment with crypto (embedded or external), I always let my employer do it. They have a whole department who does nothing but export compliance and ITAR regulations stuff all day. They are the Pros. I was just a happy radio geek in the business for 34 years. )


============

Only ever had one security "incident" traveling with a encrypted radio: TSA security groper at the New Orleans airport on my way home, about five years ago.

Had a Unity portable with a (then) prototype Li-Po battery on it, in my carry-on bag. That design of the battery was two flat-packs of battery gel, instead of the usual AA-Cell sized cylinders. The X-Ray screener flagged me for further inspection. Having just come from the last meeting that morning, I simply slipped on the suspect battery pack onto the radio, and powered it up. BAD IDEA ON MY PART...

I had been down there doing work on a DHS project, and I had an active crypto key in my radio for testing. The radio powered-up in scan, and immediately scanned over to TSA's channel, and started to receive encrypted traffic between two TSA officers, ABOUT ME. It was about that time the guys with guns showed up. I had two TSA folks escort me to the aircraft.

They were none too happy I could receive their secure comm traffic. At least I got home to Lynchburg.

 

[toastycookies]

document export restrictions

if sharing information with others, please keep in mind some documents, especially technical documentation or software (including flashcode & dsp), can be subject to export restrictions by the united states government.

Therefore, any sharing of export restricted material by: Surface mail, fax, e-mail or electronic method (ftp, drop-box, etc.) to outside the united states is considered the export of technology.

Most, if not all harris pspc documentation is covered by this export restriction. The website contains a warning slide when you log-in, and each and every document contains this warning printed in the first few pages.



attn. Moderator: you might considering keeping this as a 'sticky'.

do not share knowledge because they said not to!

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

So how does this work for a buyer who lives in say Canada or Australia who buys a radio off eBay and has it shipped to Canada... would not the seller be the exporter.. how does this law apply to the buyer? I am genuinely curious about that.. and would the radio not have to have that feature enabled? I'm not trying to be rude I am just not sure how it applies to a non-us citizen. I can understand the seller getting in trouble... just not a buyer... what government would expect the buyer who is not a US citizen to know the laws of the US?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

The US Govt has no jurisdiction on a buyer who is Canadian citizen on Canadian soil. The US seller on the other hand can be charged with exporting munitions.

I have had sales on e-bay where I had to restrict to US buyers only. One time it was a scintillation counter with two PMT's (SPECIFICALLY RESTRICTED) that a German wanted, the second time it was an HP 8536B Selective level-meter that a Pakistani citizen wanted. That item fell into the very broad definition of wire tap equipment. In both cases the items went to US buyers. And no I would not ship to Canada. Sorry, it is our overbearing govt.

 

[SCPD]

I can't honestly say. Never personally been involved with, or even heard of that situation.

BTW: Whenever I traveled, and had to ship commo equipment with crypto (embedded or external), I always let my employer do it. They have a whole department who does nothing but export compliance and ITAR regulations stuff all day. They are the Pros. I was just a happy radio geek in the business for 34 years. )


============

Only ever had one security "incident" traveling with a encrypted radio: TSA security groper at the New Orleans airport on my way home, about five years ago.

Had a Unity portable with a (then) prototype Li-Po battery on it, in my carry-on bag. That design of the battery was two flat-packs of battery gel, instead of the usual AA-Cell sized cylinders. The X-Ray screener flagged me for further inspection. Having just come from the last meeting that morning, I simply slipped on the suspect battery pack onto the radio, and powered it up. BAD IDEA ON MY PART...

I had been down there doing work on a DHS project, and I had an active crypto key in my radio for testing. The radio powered-up in scan, and immediately scanned over to TSA's channel, and started to receive encrypted traffic between two TSA officers, ABOUT ME. It was about that time the guys with guns showed up. I had two TSA folks escort me to the aircraft.

They were none too happy I could receive their secure comm traffic. At least I got home to Lynchburg.

The TSA needs to worry about speeding up the line for screening going so people don't miss their flight and not bother someone having a radio with encryption. I do like the part where they heard themselves on your radio. I thought DES was banned for export for a little while. Surprised that the TSA groper knew what was going on.

T= Thousands
S= Standing
A= Around