US Secret Service Foreign Mission ?

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HillWalker

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Hi,

I'm just noticed this frequencies in the database and although I'm not expecting any visits from the President or other leading US Government officials, would these frequencies be P25, even when used overseas in Europe (not sure how much infrastructure is needed to support P25)?

415.9750 WHCA-Foreign Mission/Uniformed divisions
419.7250 WHCA-Foreign Mission/Uniformed divisions
415.6500 WHCA-Foreign Mission/Uniformed divisions
419.1000 WHCA-Foreign Mission/Uniformed divisions

It interests me because if there ever was a high profile visit, there's few P25 capable scanners over here, as very few people import them as the radio spectrum is a bit different over here.
 
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Hooligan

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USSS Uniformed Division Foreign Missions provides limited physical security resources to foreign nation's embassies & consulates inside the USA, mostly in the Washington DC area.
 

HillWalker

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Ah right, I was wondering how they could be used abroad when the frequency spectrum would be different. I had seen one of the frequencies used in a film following SS agents protecting the President outside of the US but obviously they took some liberties with the reality.

Thanks!
 

sflmonitor

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Hi,

I'm just noticed this frequencies in the database and although I'm not expecting any visits from the President or other leading US Government officials, would these frequencies be P25, even when used overseas in Europe (not sure how much infrastructure is needed to support P25)?

415.9750 WHCA-Foreign Mission/Uniformed divisions
419.7250 WHCA-Foreign Mission/Uniformed divisions
415.6500 WHCA-Foreign Mission/Uniformed divisions
419.1000 WHCA-Foreign Mission/Uniformed divisions

It interests me because if there ever was a high profile visit, there's few P25 capable scanners over here, as very few people import them as the radio spectrum is a bit different over here.
I think there is a confusion with the term "Foreign Mission" here. This term does not refer to overseas missions, intead it is identifying the frequencies used by the USSS Uniformed Division protecting foreign embassies here in the states.

Either way, the USSS Uniformed Division no longer uses UHF for their operations. They are now on VHF. As for overseas presidential protection frequency usage, the USSS coordinates with the host country and they will both come to an agreement on what frequencies to use. At least this is what I was told by a former WHCA radio tech. I was curious about this too.

I guess your best bet is to program all of the known frequencies and hope for the best. Just be aware that USSS goes encrypted during protection details. All of their frequencies here is the states are P25 now. Not sure if they revert back to analog overseas.
 

HillWalker

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I think there is a confusion with the term "Foreign Mission" here. This term does not refer to overseas missions, intead it is identifying the frequencies used by the USSS Uniformed Division protecting foreign embassies here in the states.

Either way, the USSS Uniformed Division no longer uses UHF for their operations. They are now on VHF. As for overseas presidential protection frequency usage, the USSS coordinates with the host country and they will both come to an agreement on what frequencies to use. At least this is what I was told by a former WHCA radio tech. I was curious about this too.

I guess your best bet is to program all of the known frequencies and hope for the best. Just be aware that USSS goes encrypted during protection details. All of their frequencies here is the states are P25 now. Not sure if they revert back to analog overseas.
Yep, that's the problem. It was misleadingly used in a movie portrayal when it's used for a completely different function in reality.

Co-ordination with the host country seems most likely, and sadly for most of us in Europe that means that they'll be added to the appropriate encrypted TETRA digital network in operation in most EU countries for both day to day law enforcement and high level operations.

Still it's good to know so I don't waste time trying to search for something which won't be receivable.
 

ChrisP

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Co-ordination with the host country seems most likely, and sadly for most of us in Europe that means that they'll be added to the appropriate encrypted digital network in operation in most EU countries for both day to day law enforcement and high level operations.

Still it's good to know so I don't waste time trying to search for something which won't be receivable.
Don't give up too quickly - I have confirmed information that they (WHCA, Secret Service) still use their encrypted VHF radio systems for foreign visits, just on different frequencies that are coordinated with the host county.

Although the WHCA and US Secret Service might indeed have access to the TETRA network for coordination with host country authorities, they would not likely rely on a network they did not control for their primary communications.

- Chris
 

sflmonitor

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Don't give up too quickly - I have confirmed information that they (WHCA, Secret Service) still use their encrypted VHF radio systems for foreign visits, just on different frequencies that are coordinated with the host county.

Although the WHCA and US Secret Service might indeed have access to the TETRA network for coordination with host country authorities, they would not likely rely on a network they did not control for their primary communications.

- Chris
Chris is absolutely correct. They (USSS) would not use TETRA for primary comms. If repeaters are needed, they take their own and place them on rooftops, roadrunner vehicles, etc. USSS will never use anyone else's system for primary presidential protection.

When USSS coordinates with host countries, they usually have a pool of frequencies that they provide to the host country to choose from. These are VHF USSS frequencies. I would think that only in rare cases they would program non-standard USSS frequencies for foreign ops. But I guess it is not completely impossible.
 

rankin39

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US missions (embassies, consulates, legations, etc.) sometimes have local frequencies assigned for their use in foreign countries. I lived in Australia in 2000 and noted that the US Consulate in Melbourne had a couple of frequencies (in the 153 MHz. range I think) assigned to them by the Aussies. I never heard a single transmission on them and assume that, since the advent of cellphones, this has become their primary means of communication abroad.

Bob, WoNXN
 

ecps92

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Chris is correct.

Just like foreign countries, getting some liberties when using Radios in the US of A !

Best one was the Security Detail for the Prime Minister of India.

462.6250 input to 469.6250 Rptr
which in the the USA is an input to
464.6250 Mhz.

So, if a GMRS user key'd up on 467.6250, they come out on 462.6250 [USA] which was an input [India 7 Mhz Offsets] to 469.6250 which is the input for a 464.6250 Rptr. O BOY, talk about tracking this one down !

[Circa 1994 - Boston] no! ZERG !you can not repost this


Don't give up too quickly - I have confirmed information that they (WHCA, Secret Service) still use their encrypted VHF radio systems for foreign visits, just on different frequencies that are coordinated with the host county.

Although the WHCA and US Secret Service might indeed have access to the TETRA network for coordination with host country authorities, they would not likely rely on a network they did not control for their primary communications.

- Chris
 

HillWalker

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Don't give up too quickly - I have confirmed information that they (WHCA, Secret Service) still use their encrypted VHF radio systems for foreign visits, just on different frequencies that are coordinated with the host county.

Although the WHCA and US Secret Service might indeed have access to the TETRA network for coordination with host country authorities, they would not likely rely on a network they did not control for their primary communications.

- Chris
You make an excellent point, I hadn't thought of that.

I assume the VHF systems wouldn't have the necessary infrastructure to run P25 encryption, so what type of encryption would be used? I remember Special Branch, responsible for national security over here, used to use speech inversion on UHF before the move to Tetra..
 

ChrisP

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The VHF systems they would bring with them to Europe are the same types of systems they travel around the US. Most of the radio nets are simplex, with remote base units set up where needed. Repeaters are sometimes set up as needed, but I haven't heard them here as often as the old days.

All the VHF gear is P25 compliant using whatever encryption the WHCA and USSS are using these days - AES?

They bring whatever they need with them and get lots of practice setting it up, taking it down and moving on to the next mission.

- Chris
 

HillWalker

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I assumed that P25 would require a lot of infrastructure, but I'm not very knowledge in what's required for it. Again TETRA is heavily dependent on infrastructure because it's basically a private cell phone network which uses masts to provide coverage in a cell pattern. Literally you can be transmitting on it, and lose signal a few feet down the street and you can't communicate until you find another spot with signal. This means constant expenditure on infrastructure and overspending as it becomes necessary to increase coverage.

Chris P said:
The VHF systems they would bring with them to Europe are the same types of systems they travel around the US. Most of the radio nets are simplex, with remote base units set up where needed. Repeaters are sometimes set up as needed, but I haven't heard them here as often as the old days.

All the VHF gear is P25 compliant using whatever encryption the WHCA and USSS are using these days - AES?

They bring whatever they need with them and get lots of practice setting it up, taking it down and moving on to the next mission
So it wouldn't be any harm to get a P25 capable scanner from the States if there was an upcoming visit of a high ranking US politician, I suppose.

We're miles behind over here, the BR330T (sold as UBC3500XLT here) is the most advanced scanner which meets European needs. No emergency services use APCO-25 over here, and the only trunked systems are MPT-1327 so Trunktrackers are useless here without computer software to track the MPT-1327 spacing.
 

sflmonitor

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I assumed that P25 would require a lot of infrastructure, but I'm not very knowledge in what's required for it. Again TETRA is heavily dependent on infrastructure because it's basically a private cell phone network which uses masts to provide coverage in a cell pattern. Literally you can be transmitting on it, and lose signal a few feet down the street and you can't communicate until you find another spot with signal. This means constant expenditure on infrastructure and overspending as it becomes necessary to increase coverage.
P25 is just another mode of transmission (just like FM, AM, SSB, etc.). It can be used in simplex mode as well as on a repeater system, encrypted or "in-the-clear". A lot of our federal agencies here use P25 in simplex mode for surveillance. So, no infrastructure is necessary to work on P25 unless they want to bring along portable repeaters.

Just be aware that most (if not all) of the USSS protective details will go encrypted during protective details. If you are looking to purchase a P25-capable scanner just for monitoring upcoming visits of high ranking US politicians, you may be out of luck when encryption kicks in.
 

Raccon

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I assumed that P25 would require a lot of infrastructure, but I'm not very knowledge in what's required for it. Again TETRA is heavily dependent on infrastructure because it's basically a private cell phone network which uses masts to provide coverage in a cell pattern.
That's the typical use, but TETRA can also work in a repeater mode ("local site trunking" to use a Motorola term) or DMO (direct mode operation, no infrastructure needed). DMO repeaters, typically mobiles installed in a car but also portables, may be used to boost the signal between handportables where necessary. End-to-end encryption will ensure confidentiality of the communication, in repeater mode air-interface encryption may also be used.
Both options are very useful for localized, on-the-spot coverage and can be very mobile if the coverage area needs to be moved (while still being a secure, controlled environment).

Literally you can be transmitting on it, and lose signal a few feet down the street and you can't communicate until you find another spot with signal. This means constant expenditure on infrastructure and overspending as it becomes necessary to increase coverage.
Losing the signal can actually happen to any type of transmission as spots without signal are a result of signal propagation and not specific to TETRA or the cell-like infrastructure. Even in simplex, if you move around the corner and your signal cannot reach the other party the communication will be interrupted.
 

n5ims

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I assumed that P25 would require a lot of infrastructure, but I'm not very knowledge in what's required for it.
Not muchinfrastructure is required for P25 operation. While most P25 systems in operation have at least one repeater and many have a network of them with trunking controllers, etc. this isn't a requirement for P25 operation. It's possible to use a P25 handheld to talk to another P25 handheld on a simplex frequency without anything else required to assist. This communication could even be encrypted if both radios are programmed with the correct options and use the same key.
 

texasemt13

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To clarify: P25 is a protocol that delineates how the digital signal should be configured. It involves a lot of capabilities, but is really no more complex than say D-Star or other digital modes. It is backwards compatible with analog, as well and can operate in "mixed mode." See the wikipedia article here.

P25 is not just for government/public safety, I use P25 as an amateur radio operator.
 

code3cowboy

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I assumed that P25 would require a lot of infrastructure, but I'm not very knowledge in what's required for it. Again TETRA is heavily dependent on infrastructure because it's basically a private cell phone network which uses masts to provide coverage in a cell pattern. Literally you can be transmitting on it, and lose signal a few feet down the street and you can't communicate until you find another spot with signal. This means constant expenditure on infrastructure and overspending as it becomes necessary to increase coverage.
You must have been listening to a motorola sales pitch. Your Tetra system has the same issues as any digital system using P25 or ANY OTHER DIGITAL TRANSMISSION MODE.
 

ka8ypy

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The VHF systems they would bring with them to Europe are the same types of systems they travel around the US. Most of the radio nets are simplex, with remote base units set up where needed. Repeaters are sometimes set up as needed, but I haven't heard them here as often as the old days.

All the VHF gear is P25 compliant using whatever encryption the WHCA and USSS are using these days - AES?

They bring whatever they need with them and get lots of practice setting it up, taking it down and moving on to the next mission.

- Chris
Chris is correct in that WHCA takes everything with them they need to support POTUS. When I was stationed at WHCA 15+ years ago, we used the same frequencies overseas that we used stateside. I'm not sure if that has changed or not today.

Dan
KA8YPY
 
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