USAF A2A BFM on non-MilAir Freq

[GlobalNorth]

Over NW Phoenix, AZ at 1500 hours MST, USAF aircraft are using the Thunderbird "Diamond Formation" Freq 149.6500 MHz / AM for conducting A2A BFM.

 

[statewidehq]

I have to ask, for the acronym challenged BFM ?

 

[nd5y]

What makes you think 149.65 is not a milair frequency?

 

[GlobalNorth]

I have to ask, for the acronym challenged BFM ?

Basic Fighter Maneuvers.

 

[GlobalNorth]

What makes you think 149.65 is not a milair frequency?

MilAir is commonly defined as 225 to 400 [or 380 currently].

The primary military-only bands in the VHF high band are 138.00-144.00 and 148.00-150.775. Yes, the military can use it for anything, but it isn't commonly referred to as MilAir.

 

[ecps92]

I've found plenty of "AM" MilAir traffic in the VHF Mil Spectrum

MilAir is commonly defined as 225 to 400 [or 380 currently].

The primary military-only bands in the VHF high band are 138.00-144.00 and 148.00-150.775. Yes, the military can use it for anything, but it isn't commonly referred to as MilAir.

 

[737mech]

This is why people want scanners with the ability to change modes in that band. I read in another post somebody found that feature on the BC125AT. It sounds like noise if you have it on FM but mostly clear on AM.

 

[spacellamaman]

149.65 AM is a standard Bragg area DZ freq in heavy use.

the 138-144,148-150mhz stuff has been for me at least, central NC, 100% MilAir and 100% AM (perhaps an incident or two have occurred otherwise but i can't recall any at the moment).

well a slight variation is occasionally there will be air to (DZ) ground comms where one side has AM modulation set and the other FM. of course I can hear both sides due to realizing what is going on and having multiple receivers....

sometimes it takes forever before anyone other than me realizes why "you are broken and unreadable!".

i never know whether to laugh or cry.


also, non-selectable modulation scanners tend to have that area default to FM. If you are close enough or the signal is strong enough, your receiver in AM can kinda sorta make out what is being said with the Tx'er in FM.

Not the other way around however.

 

[dmchalmers]

Over NW Phoenix, AZ at 1500 hours MST, USAF aircraft are using the Thunderbird "Diamond Formation" Freq 149.6500 MHz / AM for conducting A2A BFM.

I've also been getting some hits called thunderbirds diamond formation here at my place in northern Mi static no voice that i've caught afternoon hours mostly

 

[Hooligan]

MilAir is commonly defined as 225 to 400 [or 380 currently].

The primary military-only bands in the VHF high band are 138.00-144.00 and 148.00-150.775. Yes, the military can use it for anything, but it isn't commonly referred to as MilAir.

My opinion of the opinion you posted above is that it's misinformation.

And just because someone somewhere labelled 149.650 AM as being a Thunderbirds channel, it doesn't mean it's coordinated regionally or nationwide for Thunderbirds-only. Here in Las Vegas, a Civil Air Patrol FM/P25 wide-overage repeater output channel also happens to be used routinely (here in Las Vegas & elsewhere) as a Thunderbirds inter-plane channel in AM mode. This has been the case for years, though CAP's repeater isn't active a lot. It's poor spectrum management, enhanced sometimes by clueless users that don't understand they're getting co-channel interference & thus don't report it to their spectrum management office.

 

[p1879]

My experience, including today, is that VHF AM air to air mil comms is extremely common.

 

[krokus]

I've also been getting some hits called thunderbirds diamond formation here at my place in northern Mi static no voice that i've caught afternoon hours mostly

I wonder if that is the Alpena CRTC MOA over Lake Huron.

 

[dmchalmers]

I wonder if that is the Alpena CRTC MOA over Lake Huron.

I'm thinking it is I'm 50 miles west as a crow flys from it an 15 miles east of Camp Grayling mngb

 

[spacellamaman]

My opinion of the opinion you posted above is that it's misinformation.

And just because someone somewhere labelled 149.650 AM as being a Thunderbirds channel, it doesn't mean it's coordinated regionally or nationwide for Thunderbirds-only.

here in NC 149.65AM is often heard in use by GECKOxx (C27J's USASOC) flights, usually to DZSO's or similar type situation.

My experience, including today, is that VHF AM air to air mil comms is extremely common.

my experience has been, in the NC area, VHF-AM is where its at. of course its far easier catching stuff spanning a few mhz vs 175mhz.

 

[Rifleman336]

Their is all kinds of activity in the 138.00-144.00 and 148.00-150.775 VHF areas in AM mode. I listen to Toledo, Ohio based 180th FW all the time up their in AM mode, most of their A-T-A combat and idle chit chat is their on their way to and from training exercises. And those are military frequencies used for both ground and or air depending on user and mode.

 

[MiCon]

My experience: Take it for what it's worth.
The 138 ~ 150Mhz frequencies being debated here have been used for many things over the years. Many years ago most military installations used these frequencies in FM mode for base security, FD, EMS, and just about every support function you can think of. Then along came trunking, and at this point in time most of these functions are now on 400Mhx, 700Mhz, and 800Mhz federal trunking systems, many using P25 technology. Before, during, and since this transition, I've heard many milair comms here in AM mode, mostly USAF and ANG a/a and a/g (squadron ops, maint, etc).
Keep in mind that when it comes to frequency assignments, nothing is written in stone. There's always an exception or variation of the assigned use.