Using a pager as a scanner?

[mrob47]

Not sure if this is the right place to put this but here we go. After scanning my local dispatch center (NORCOM) I noticed that I really only ever heard around three departments getting dispatched even though they dispatch I believe fourteen departments. Occasionally I would hear Eastside's smaller stations like 185 or Mercer Island getting dispatched but its rare to hear. Recently I got to thinking, can't I just use a pager to monitor strictly a single department? So I did some research and picked up an Apollo Pilot pager in hopes I could use it to monitor a single department. I have all of the frequencies (I think) but after trying to program the pager I realized I was missing the capcode. Is there any way to bypass the capcode and receive all pages on the frequency or does someone know of the codes?

Thanks in advance

 

[ka3aaa]

you will be better off buying a scanner

 

[a417]

what's the model # on it? AL801, AL924, AL812? Is it a Gold? Pilot XP?

You will need the frequency and the capcodes at a minimum (you can program all the function bits (individiual groups within the capcodes) - but I don't recall a way to wildcard in the capcode.

Here is Apollos hand programing instructions for capable units - right from their website.

You can use PDW to monitor the pager broadcast frequency and see all the traffic, and then glean the depts you want.

you will need a discriminator tapped scanner, or an SDR dongle, or a reciever that can RX the frequency.

This information is broadcast unencrypted, security thru obfuscurity - as it's kind of a pain to get, but it's all there flying around.

 

[RBMTS]

I'm curious what frequencies you are listening to. Norcom no longer utilizes tone pagers for any departments. The old VHF dispatch channels are all but gone expect for some departments that keep their frequencies as a backup to the trunking system (such as ESFR). All dispatching is done by CAD. The departments do utilize POSAG paging on a VHF frequency but all you would hear is data. No voice dispatching is done. IMHO a pager is not going to help you.

**EDIT**
I just realized you were referring to a alpha pager so you must be referring to the VHF frequency. Like A417 noted, you'll need the capcodes. As a suggestion (as I also had a A/N pager on Norcom), try to discover the capcodes for the BC. They normally get paged on most calls just to be kept informed. Therefore you won't need to discover individual CC's for engine/truck companies. Another thing to be aware of is that the actual call data on the POSAG system is very short and limited. You won't see much in the way of details about a call. Usually just the address, a very short description, and the units assigned to the call.

 

[a417]

the Pilot would decode the pocsag if they did, we used to use them. They're not tone activated, they read a pocsag data stream

[edit]
looking into King Cty, i don't see any pocsag pager info in their RR entry. So i'm not sure the OP is making the right decision in the Pilot pgr. Looks to be he would need a scanner.

 

[mrob47]

I'm curious what frequencies you are listening to. Norcom no longer utilizes tone pagers for any departments. The old VHF dispatch channels are all but gone expect for some departments that keep their frequencies as a backup to the trunking system (such as ESFR). All dispatching is done by CAD. The departments do utilize POSAG paging on a VHF frequency but all you would hear is data. No voice dispatching is done. IMHO a pager is not going to help you.

**EDIT**
I just realized you were referring to a alpha pager so you must be referring to the VHF frequency. Like A417 noted, you'll need the capcodes. As a suggestion (as I also had a A/N pager on Norcom), try to discover the capcodes for the BC. They normally get paged on most calls just to be kept informed. Therefore you won't need to discover individual CC's for engine/truck companies. Another thing to be aware of is that the actual call data on the POSAG system is very short and limited. You won't see much in the way of details about a call. Usually just the address, a very short description, and the units assigned to the call.

So my hopes is to listen to Duvall Fire and they have two frequencies reserved for dispatch within the district. I may be wrong but I believe all units and stations are dispatched on the same capcode. How should I go about getting the capcodes for the BC?

 

[mrob47]

After doing some more research, I think I may have the wrong frequencies. Is all digital paging for King County done on 152.0075?

 

[RBMTS]

You are correct about the alpha paging frequency. It is used for Norcom, ValCom, I believe Snohomish. SFD uses a UHF frequency for it alpha paging.
Departments and each apparatus have it's own capcode (meaning chief, BC's, trucks, amb's, staff. etc). The stations are alerted via cad so there is no cap code for them. There is also area wide capcodes to alert all BC's of larger incidents. On the pager I used, I only had certain BC's and area wide alerts. I didn't need (or desire) to be alerted for typical EMS runs or fire alarm activation's.

Your original post threw me off at first when you said "pager as a scanner". Back about 10 years ago (before CAD) most departments were toned out. That's when you could scan them. Alpha pagers need to be locked in on a single frequency.

 

[mrob47]

You are correct about the alpha paging frequency. It is used for Norcom, ValCom, I believe Snohomish. SFD uses a UHF frequency for it alpha paging.
Departments and each apparatus have it's own capcode (meaning chief, BC's, trucks, amb's, staff. etc). The stations are alerted via cad so there is no cap code for them. There is also area wide capcodes to alert all BC's of larger incidents. On the pager I used, I only had certain BC's and area wide alerts. I didn't need (or desire) to be alerted for typical EMS runs or fire alarm activation's.

Your original post threw me off at first when you said "pager as a scanner". Back about 10 years ago (before CAD) most departments were toned out. That's when you could scan them. Alpha pagers need to be locked in on a single frequency.

Do you know if there’s a resource I could use to find the cap codes or should I goto the department directly to get them?

 

[a417]

Departments and each apparatus have it's own capcode (meaning chief, BC's, trucks, amb's, staff. etc). The stations are alerted via cad so there is no cap code for them. There is also area wide capcodes to alert all BC's of larger incidents. On the pager I used, I only had certain BC's and area wide alerts. I didn't need (or desire) to be alerted for typical EMS runs or fire alarm activation's.

Do those depts use over the air rip&runs at the station houses?

 

[a417]

You will need the frequency and the capcodes at a minimum (you can program all the function bits (individiual groups within the capcodes) - but I don't recall a way to wildcard in the capcode.

Here is Apollos hand programing instructions for capable units - right from their website.

You can use PDW to monitor the pager broadcast frequency and see all the traffic, and then glean the depts you want.

you will need a discriminator tapped scanner, or an SDR dongle, or a reciever that can RX the frequency.

This information is broadcast unencrypted, security thru obfuscurity - as it's kind of a pain to get, but it's all there flying around.

 

[mrob47]

I’m familiar with how to program the pager, I just need to find out how to access the cap codes for my local department

 

[a417]

you can try asking?

or you can try what I posted, and then quoted.

Here is Apollos hand programing instructions for capable units - right from their website.

You can use PDW to monitor the pager broadcast frequency and see all the traffic, and then glean the depts you want.

you will need a discriminator tapped scanner, or an SDR dongle, or a reciever that can RX the frequency.

This information is broadcast unencrypted, security thru obfuscurity - as it's kind of a pain to get, but it's all there flying around.

 

[mrob47]

you can try asking?

or you can try what I posted, and then quoted.

So today I tried to hook my BCD436HP up to my pc to do soundcard decoding with PDW but I am having no luck. I tried to follow the manual but I am unable to open the volume control menu. The signal indicator bounces around whenever a page goes out and I believe I have everything setup correctly but I think that volume control menu is making it so that pages won't show up in the monitored messages tab. Any advice?

 

[jonwienke]

Are you using an audio isolator between the 436 and the computer to prevent ground loops?

 

[a417]

Does the 436 give discriminator audio out via the jack? I didn't think it did. Can someone else here confirm? That would be your problem if it doesn't. The software needs (what amounts to) raw audio out via a tap that is NOT the filtered audio out found on most headphone jacks.

 

[a417]

Hmm, there is a mod here - so it looks like it doesn't by default.

 

[jonwienke]

There is a pad on the board labeled DISC, but I've never tried connecting to it to see what happens. There is no jack for discriminator audio from the factory; you'd have to add it.