Vermillion FD frequency changes?

[mtindor]

We received a submission that noted a pending FCC change (to reflect narrowbanding). In the submission, the submitter also stated that the frequencies have changed:

They have pending actions showing with the FCC to change frequency & antenna properties filed on 9/12/11 - ULS Application - Public Safety Pool, Conventional - 0004871336 - VERMILION, CITY OF

Vermilion Fire Department Frequency Change
Output 453.62500 to 453.6375
Input 458.62500 to 458.6375[/B]

I have been monitoring these frequencies for over a week & all Vermilion FD traffic is being transmitted on these frequencies & the former posted frequencies are no longer being used.

When I looked at the pending application, it showed no such change of frequency. All it showed was that Vermillion was going through the narrowbanding process. As such, I questioned the submitter and have not received a response.

As such, if you are one who monitors Vermillion FD, can you clarify whether they have changed from using 453.625/458.625 to using 453.6375/458.6375 ?

The only way to accurately tell is to program both 453.625 and 453.6375 into a scanner that has an FMN (narrowband FM) setting and see if you are clearly hearing them on 453.625 or on 453.6375.

I suspect it's still 453.625 and just narrowband, but then again I've been known to be wrong a lot. I need confirmation before making a change like that in the DB though, so I'm asking for the help from the listeners out there.

Thanks

Mike

 

[KD8CES]

As of 11-19-2011 at 6pm, the Vermilion Fire department toned out their test page on 453.625. Their was an article in the local paper about radio reprogramming related to rebanding but no frequency changes as of yet, I monitor this freq exclusively and will update any changes that occur in the near future. scannerdweeb.

 

[mtindor]

Thanks, Dweeb [I'm still chuckling]

I appreciate it. Please do let us know if/when anythign changes.

- Mike

 

[KD8CES]

Traffic was logged on 453.6375 @ 6pm pager test. Am currently scanning both freqs and logging results, will let you know any further updates. SD

 

[KD8CES]

Have been Logging both frequencies for several weeks, Tone outs still coming out on 453.625, as well as radio traffic, business has been slow the last few weeks but still listening.Nothing on new frequency.SD

 

[mtindor]

THank you. I had a feeling that would be the case. I made sure that the database still reflects 453.625 / 458.625

Mike

 

[VermilionScannerGuy]

Perhaps everyone should start checking again. At 18:00 every day the Vermilion Fire Department (WPED250) sounds the sirens at both Station #1 (5467 Ohio Street) and Station #2 (385 Overlook Road) along with testing the paging system utilized by the volunteer Firefighters. Shortly after the sirens have sounded, broadcasts denoting that this was only a test is heard on I/O 458.63750/453.63750.

ADDENDUM: I have both the new & old frequencies programmed into my aging Pro-95 Scanner, but only the new frequencies have any radio traffic when the FD is out on a call. I've lived the 2nd street over from Station #2 since 1996 & my nickname "The Scanner Guy" was actually jokingly given to me by the Vermilion Police Department years ago.

 

[VermilionScannerGuy]

07:14 hours (GMT -05:00 Eastern Time) 01-12-12 - Vermilion Fire Department (WPED250) radio traffic on frequencies: I/O 458.63750/453.63750.

ADDENDUM: All units reporting "In Service" & "Returning to Station" @ 08:29 hours (GMT -05:00 Eastern Time) on frequencies: I/O 458.63750/453.63750.

 

[mtindor]

07:14 hours (GMT -05:00 Eastern Time) 01-12-12 - Vermilion Fire Department (WPED250) radio traffic on frequencies: I/O 458.63750/453.63750.

ADDENDUM: All units reporting "In Service" & "Returning to Station" @ 08:29 hours (GMT -05:00 Eastern Time) on frequencies: I/O 458.63750/453.63750.

Really, I get what you are saying - You are saying they are using 453.6375 and not 453.625.

BUT:

1. Their 453.625 license was updated to indicate that they switched to narrowband. The frequency on the license did not change and is still listed as 453.625

2. 453.6375 is only 12.5 khz different from 453.625. Anybody with a scanner that tuned to either 453.6375 or 453.625 would likely hear the same traffic, even if their scanner specifically supported NFM and they had 453.6375 or 453.625 programmed in as narrowband.

I just am not convinced that 453.6375 is the actual frequency without further reports from additional people.

If somebody who monitors Vermillion using a scanner capable of NFM setting can program both 453.625 AND 453.6375 in, both of them as NFM, and then switch back and forth between the two of them when they become active and compare audio and signal strength, that would be the telltale sign. Or if somebody was using an SDR and monitored it, they could easily tell what frequency it was.

Otherwise, I'm leaving it in the database as is. It would make no sense for Vermillion to take the time to update an existing license for 453.625 but then fail to actually update the frequency as well, unless the frequency never changed.

Seriously -- I want to make the change in the DB, but only if it is correct. I'd like some confirmation from a second source.

Mike

 

[VermilionScannerGuy]

Your point is understood. I'm not sure if my old Radio Shack Pro-95 is fine tuned enough to recognize the difference.

At the time of the call, I set a priority scan on the old output frequency of 453.625 (#019 on Bank 0) & then manually tuned to the output frequency of 453.6375 (#002 on Bank 0). Each time WPED250 transmitted, it remained on the manually tuned frequency & did not switch to the priority frequency.

When I bought the model at the time, I did it with recommendations from a number of friends that were also licensed HAM operators. They both said for what I was going to use it for, it could actually be more than what I needed or would need for a long time (little did many see the coming proliferation of serious digital frequency usage back then).

I would love to upgrade to a better model with digital reception (so many more departments are entering into the MARCS) that I could use one. However, disability income leaves me with few options in upgrading.

 

[KD8CES]

Greetings, I have been monitoring Vermilion fire the last several weeks Parked on 453.625 FM and also switched to 453.625 NFM, Using a uniden 346xt set on tone out. Comparing logs, the tones out show no difference in signal strength and all the same traffic has come thru on either setting, as well as regular radio traffic. where did the 453.6375 frequency come from????SD

 

[VermilionScannerGuy]

I have found a possible solution to the 12.5kHz difference on the FCC license:

Waivers/Conditions:
Beginning January 1, 2013, this station must operate on channels with a bandwidth of 12.5 kHz or less, or with equivalent efficiency, regardless of the emission bandwidths set forth on this license. See Section 90.209(b)(5) of the Commission's Rules. Note, however, that the narrowbanding requirement does not apply to specific channels designated in Rule 90.20 or 90.35 for paging only.

This can also be viewed on the FCC website: ULS License - Public Safety Pool, Conventional License - WPED250 - VERMILION, CITY OF - Administration

 

[mtindor]

Your FCC web quote has nothing to do with what you're experiencing. It's been reported that Vermillion is still on 453.625 [just as the license would suggest].

If you're hearing them on 453.6375, then you're sufficiently close enough to their transmitter that you can hear them equally well 12.5 khz a way -- or your scanner just doesn't have any selectivity.

That's my thought at least.

Scannerdweeb says 453.625. The license says 453.625. you say 453.6375. I can't change the database every other day based upon differing reports. I tend to believe the frequency is still 453.625.

If a third and fourth listener from the area wants to report on what frequency they are hearing Vermillion FD traffic on as of this date,that would help.

Mike