VHF Marine Antenna

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baybum

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Does anyone have recommendations for a lower profile (less than the 8' whips) VHF marine antenna. For TX and RX, 25 watts and under.
First hand knowledge reports/recommendations are preferred.

Thanks
 

mass-man

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Where you gonna use the antenna?...marine VHF antennas are big because usually there is no ground plane under them on a fiberglass boat. If you’re planning a installation at your home there are options...but I have no direct knowledge of them! I’ve just seen them on dockside buildings.
 

mmckenna

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The 'sail boat' antennas can be a good option. They are a 1/2 wave design, so don't require a ground plane under them. They are also about 4 feet tall.

The fiberglass whips are usually a coaxial antenna stuffed in the tube, and are often around 8 feet long. But you get what you pay for. The cheap ones are just stripped back coaxial cable stuffed in the tube. The better ones actually have metal elements that stay in place.

A recommendation would require knowing where you were going to use it, what sort of mount you want, etc.

As always, avoid the cheap Chinese knockoff antennas from Tram/Browning and the unpronounceable brand names. Since lives can depend on reaching help in an emergency, low cost should not be your first priority unless this is for monitoring use.
 

sflmonitor

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I have used the Metz marine antennas for years and find them to be reliable and function very well for their size. They are built tough and all connections are soldered (except coax of course).

 

baybum

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All very good information, thank you. I should have mentioned that I am a HAM radio guy and know antenna theory, and have had boats for the last 40 years, but never used anything but the 8' Shakespeare's.
Looking to mount one of the shorter antennas on a new boat, center console, windshield rail. Will be using a hand-held.
Just wondering who has used what.

Thanks
 

mmckenna

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All very good information, thank you. I should have mentioned that I am a HAM radio guy and know antenna theory, and have had boats for the last 40 years, but never used anything but the 8' Shakespeare's.
Looking to mount one of the shorter antennas on a new boat, center console, windshield rail. Will be using a hand-held.
Just wondering who has used what.

Thanks

OK, the half wave whips will work just fine. You can go with the Metz or Shakespeare models, they are reputable brands. You should be able to find a rail mount that has the standard marine antenna mount.
The smaller antenna/shorter whip won't put a lot of stress on the rail.
 

ochf13

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TRAM-1600-HC-35-Marine-Antenna
  • Covers all marine band frequencies
  • Base-loading coil
  • 35" stainless steel whip
  • Gain: 6dB
  • Stainless steel L-bracket for side or mast mounting
  • Covers All Marine-Band Frequencies
  • Base-Loading Coil
  • 38" Stainless Steel Whip
  • Gain: 6 Db
  • Stainless-Steel, L-Bracket For Side- Or Mast-Mounting
Using it for AIS receiver
 

mmckenna

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Please, don't put potential life safety communications on a cheap Chinese antenna. Having a reliable VHF radio/antenna system on your boat is important. Saving a few bucks buying the Tram/Browning crap isn't worth it when someones life may be on the line.
Fine for AIS use, but not when you might need Channel 16 to summon help.
 

paulears

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What a load of rubbish, sorry! Here in the uk, we don’t have any home grown antenna manufacturers apart from small businesses doing custom stuff, so Chinese antennas are the most common source here and there is no evidence at all that Chinese marine antennas are in any way inferior. That’s just not true. With these simple half wave designs, the only issues would be dry joints and waterproofing, and as most now use rf sealed plastic or epoxy there is no difference I can tell. Indeed, the commonality of 1” mounts makes swapping quite simple. I have sold hundreds of Chinese antennas for marine use with zero failures, but I have replaced dozens where users wreck them under bridges, or get them snapped during telehandling loading.
leisure boaters are spending more and more on safety, so even with a decent vessel installation, they’re buying floating handhelds, and guess what, icon is not my most popular brand for these second radios, it’s a Chinese one! In my office is a bin of radios that have been left with me by marine folk. They’re disgustingly poorly looked after by the marine community. I don’t know anyone in the leisure boating arena who would baulk at replacing an antenna when given a nasty knock, just in case , when the thing is still performing fine. I have no idea of the tram/browning kit you say is rubbish but I doubt it is remotely bad as you say. One of the antennas on my mast is a twenty year old diamond dual band ham antenna made in Chin. Some Chinese kit is rubbish, but my experience of selling them is they have a zero return rate.
 

hill

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A short antenna is alright for a small center console with not going to be too far from land.

I would recomend not using a handheld radio, but purchasing a full 25 watt radio to be able to summon help from the USCG or another vessel. Handhelds are a poor choice for primary life and safety radios, but can be a great backup radio.
 

paulears

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The critical factor in marine communications is not the equipment type or power, it's antenna height. Marine range is distance limited by the horizon. The most often used, and of course simplified maths is that you multiply the square root of the antenna’s height above water (in feet) by 1.42 which gives you the range in miles to the horizon. Then, the other station uses the same calculation and that is the maximum effective range.

So in your boat you have an antenna - on the boat, or in your hand and it's 5 ft above the water. That gives you 3 miles (3.175). Increasing the output power has virtually no effect. It does of course help you get through free space absorbing objects - so it does play a part. Marine band at sea has minimal obstruction, so 5W or 25W makes very little difference - you either have a path or you don't. The coastguard might have an antenna at 30ft above the water, which still gives them less than 10 miles to the horizon. So - with horizon grazing, your practical maximum distance is from you near the water, height wise to their 30ft antenna at 13 miles or so. Your extra power will compensate for the signal drop off at the horizon and give you a small amount of extra range before it nose dives - but it is a small difference. At sea, reflections and multi-path propagation are less, leaving you with a single path, terminated by the horizon. The biggest assistance to range is making sure the antenna take off angle is in the right direction. The vessels fitted with those rakish longer antennas get up on the plane making the angle even worse - the higher gain of the antenna has to be balanced against the poor take-off angle, which of course means the practical effective gain in use is pretty much the same as a slower vessel with a low gain antenna. Portables of course do have lower efficiency compressed helical, and yet in practice the horizon is still line of sight, until it isn't.

The biggest safety issue with hand-held is battery operation, so a vessel mounted and powered marine radio is still the best choice for safety, but not much use if you go overboard. Arguments exist for users who have to balance vessel mounted vs personal radios. I think, on balance, a personal radio that is water safe is the best option for preservation of life. Range is seldom the issue people believe when even high antennas have a quite short maximum range. My office in a port with three different antenna types struggles to hear the vessels I can see on the Shipfinder type systems. Ten miles is pretty much the imaginary line for reception for me. One of my customers returned a plotter/transponder that didn't work. I checked on ship finder and other services and his vessel was missing. Oddly, in the office it appeared straight away, the spectrum analyser revealed plenty of output and a quick check revealed all was well. Investigating his home marina, on a busy weekend it appeared empty of boats, and so did the nearby sea area. It just seems the AIS coverage from the shore stations is simply awful in his area - there are no local reception points within the range of vessels with full power outputs from their com and nav aids. One boat appeared. A quick check showed it as a huge sailing yacht - and I bet it's antenna was on the top. Marine comms is short range - our licence here in the UK is even called a short range licence. It's nice to have a taller craft with fly bridges and high antennas, but even on those, if you get in trouble away from the bridge you are stuffed! Portables have to win. Both types would be best. If I had to have just one radio for safety, it would work on batteries and float!
 

hill

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The USCG has antennas why higher than 30'. In my local Coast Guard Sector they are from 200' being the lowest with tallest being 600'.
 

paulears

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Ha! The US always do it bigger. The highest coastguard mast where I live is 10m above ground, the old coastguard control centre ten miles away is a 5 storey building with the antennas on the roof. The tallest antenna tower in our coastal region was 150ft (50m) Your 600ft tower gets what? less than 40 miles? Still not a huge distance is it?
 

mmckenna

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The USCG 'rescue 21' system was designed around 1 watt at a few feet off water level. While more power will be helpful, a hand held connected to a good antenna for near shore use is going to be OK.

As for the Tram/Browning antennas, I've disassembled some of their products, and I'm not impressed. They may be 'good enough' for hobby use, but they are in no way superior or even equal to the higher quality manufacturers.

Your money, your choice, but I'd not go with the Cheap Chinese Antennas solely for the purpose of saving a few dollars.
 

hill

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When they built Rescue 21 they used some of the sites from the legacy system and also had some new sites. One our sites is on the Navy's towers on Annapolis.

Years ago the CG stations used to each have a local tower. I don't think they are still used even if still up, since every time been at the local station they have been on Rescue 21.
 

Ubbe

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I'm wondering why we've not seen the brand here
There's lots of obscure antenna manufactures, as there are some degree of smoke and mirrors involved. Some claim specifications that defy the laws of physics but antennas are usually only promoted in their own region, giving good terms to resellers that makes it hard for antennas from the "outside" to compete. There's not much you can do to a standard single band vertical antenna, they all work more or less the same.

The mechanical quality are only known after some 5-10 years and by then the antenna has often been canceled and have been replaced by a new "improved " model, which means that the production cost have been cut to boost profit and instead tries to ride on the good reputation from the old model.

/Ubbe
 

paulears

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I've found some of these Tram antennas on UK Ebay, as imports from the US. They seem to be 5/8th designs but with no ground plan if they are mast mounted? They claim 3dBd gain which is about right if they are 5/8th - but I fail to see how they would match on a typical boat with wood or GRP construction and on a mast? Anybody know bit more?
 

mmckenna

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Anybody know bit more?

This is one of the problems with these cheap Chinese antennas and the people who sell them.
Specs are usually vague, unrealistic or impossible.
Use dB instead of dBi or dBd for rating the gain.

Often the people that are buying these cheap antennas don't understand things like ground planes.

Tram/Browning has been at industry trade shows. They have an extremely wide range of products, and the design styles vary all over the place. The Tram/Browning office in the USA is a small office/warehouse in Oklahoma. Basically just a office and the stuff is all built overseas. When you look at the individual products, you start to notice that they appear to be knock-offs of name brand stuff, so maybe made in the same factory, or just outright bootlegged stuff.
I tried to talk with one of their guys at the trade show, and he didn't seem to be interested in discussing the design of the antennas, why I should buy them, or anything else. At past shows, it's just a big display and that's it, no seemingly knowledgeable people, little info, etc.
On the other hand, you go by the booth for Larsen, Laird, any of the name brand antennas companies and you'll fin knowledgeable engineers and sales people that understand antennas and will happily talk to you about their products.

Tram/Browning (same company) seems to just be a clearing house for more junky Chinese knock off stuff. They seem to be popular amongst the cheap ham community, and I guess for non-critical use they are considered 'good enough'. You won't find any reputable public safety agency using their antennas, and you won't find many shops that sell/use their products. No one wants to stake their reputation on unknown junk antennas to just save a few dollars.

What ever anyone wants to do for their antenna, its certainly up to them. But they are not a highly regarding company among professionals, and you won't see their products used in any sort of mission critical application.
 
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