VHFand UHF Ham Radio Base Station Vertical ??

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tracker44

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
263
Hello. I am an older Ham and over the years I have had towers with beams HF-UHF-VHF .
Dipoles of all sorts. All have done me a good job. But that set up is no longer in my future.

But I have never tried a Vertical on 2 Meters or 440 Mhz. So I have had no real experience useing them.
Some years ago I moved and now live in an area.where I have a mountain to my south about 2 miles away, and what I would call a large ridge to my north, which I am right close to that. I guess you could call it a valley.
I am useing a small beam on 2 Meters that sits on my deck to check into some of the local nets which are East and Wesrt of me.
Pointing the beam up or down the valley works ok for that , out side of that I am quite limited.
Some fellow Hams close to me use verticals and seem to do much better reaching distance Repeaters.
So I thought I would try one . With the idea a vertical has a lower-angle of radiation I thought it may work better in my location. I have been doing some research on the different antennas out there.
I am looking in the 10 foot , plus or minus range.:

Duel Band Verticals:
COMET GP6 verticals seem to get alot of bad reviews on E-Ham , a few good/
MFJ 1524 has it share also----But not afraid to try.
Diamond X300A----Some pluses and minus also
Opek UVS-200----Some pluses and minus also
Hustler G6-270R----$200.00 Vertical----Not much on reviews for this one , looks solid ..

Some of these are DBI and some are DB on the gain ratings .
I have always leaned a little toward the DB rateings but have used the other rating also.

What are your thoughts on this group of verticales for my conditions ??

TNX
 

Tracker44

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
263
Hello eaf1956. Any issues with the shap the antenna came in , such as QC issues ????
TNX for the information.
 

bill4long

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
749
Location
Earth
You will be happy with a Diamond X-300 or X-510 for 2m/440.

For 2 meter only, the Hustler G7-144 simply cannot be beat
 

k9wkj

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
306
Location
where they make the cheese
DBd = DBi minus 2.85db or so
DBd is gain over a dipole in free space
DBi is gain over a isotropic radiator in free space

so when i see a DBi measurement i subtract 3db
thats gets you close enough to the same to nevermind
 

jwt873

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
867
Location
Woodlands, MB
I've been using a Jetstream JTB2. It's Chinese knockoff of the Diamond X-200 and it's about half the price.
A local dealer was selling them and I thought.. What the heck :)

It's 8.3 feet long, with a claimed gain of 8dB on 440 Mhz and 6 dB on 145 Mhz.

It's been up on top of my 40 foot tower for 6 years now with no problems. It's handled wind gusts up to 60 Mph.

The only complaint I have is that the SWR gets up over 2:1 in the 144 range. (I sometimes use it for APRS on 144.39).
.
 

Attachments

lmrtek

Active Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
533
I've tried them all and the hustler is built. much better than the rest and produces a REAL 6db gain overall DIPOLE

the two best built omni antennas on the market are the Hustler G6-144 and the G6-440

the comets and diamonds don't last long in the elements and don't work as we!l as their greatly exaggerated in figures would lead you to believe
 

prcguy

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
8,083
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
The Comet and Diamond verticals are fine unless you have extreme weather and super high winds. I've used the Comet GP-15, CX-333, GP-6 and the GP-9 with the 9 being my favorite. Diamond is similar quality and price vs performance.

Personally I would not be happy with just a directional antenna, an omni should be your primary antenna and suplement it with a higher gain directional if you think you need it. I have a 5 element 2m Yagi mounted a little higher than the top of my GP-9 and at extreme distances the Yagi does a little better, but 99% of the time the GP-9 does what I need.

BTW, there is a 2.14dB difference between dBi and dBd gain. Most of the foreign made antennas are dBi or some made up numbers to make more sales. It will be pretty obvious when shopping and one mfr says his 3ft tall 2m antnena has 9dB gain and another well known and trusted mfr will rate their 8ft tall 2m antenna at 3dB gain. Size is everything when it comes to gain.
prcguy


Hello. I am an older Ham and over the years I have had towers with beams HF-UHF-VHF .
Dipoles of all sorts. All have done me a good job. But that set up is no longer in my future.

But I have never tried a Vertical on 2 Meters or 440 Mhz. So I have had no real experience useing them.
Some years ago I moved and now live in an area.where I have a mountain to my south about 2 miles away, and what I would call a large ridge to my north, which I am right close to that. I guess you could call it a valley.
I am useing a small beam on 2 Meters that sits on my deck to check into some of the local nets which are East and Wesrt of me.
Pointing the beam up or down the valley works ok for that , out side of that I am quite limited.
Some fellow Hams close to me use verticals and seem to do much better reaching distance Repeaters.
So I thought I would try one . With the idea a vertical has a lower-angle of radiation I thought it may work better in my location. I have been doing some research on the different antennas out there.
I am looking in the 10 foot , plus or minus range.:

Duel Band Verticals:
COMET GP6 verticals seem to get alot of bad reviews on E-Ham , a few good/
MFJ 1524 has it share also----But not afraid to try.
Diamond X300A----Some pluses and minus also
Opek UVS-200----Some pluses and minus also
Hustler G6-270R----$200.00 Vertical----Not much on reviews for this one , looks solid ..

Some of these are DBI and some are DB on the gain ratings .
I have always leaned a little toward the DB rateings but have used the other rating also.

What are your thoughts on this group of verticales for my conditions ??

TNX
 

bill4long

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
749
Location
Earth
I've tried them all and the hustler is built. much better than the rest and produces a REAL 6db gain overall DIPOLE

the two best built omni antennas on the market are the Hustler G6-144 and the G6-440

the comets and diamonds don't last long in the elements and don't work as we!l as their greatly exaggerated in figures would lead you to believe
The Hustler for 2m is a G7-144 not G6-144. Great antenna. Best 2m vertical on the market, IMO.

The G6-440 is an all fiberglass radome, and I've have two of them crack at the base in strong winds. Pieces of junk using "tape and fiberglass" rolling, bad idea, and Hustler would not remedy the situation. Stay away from G6-440.
 

teufler

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
2,348
Location
ST PETERS, MISSOURI
agree with Bill4long, the G7-144 is tough to beat. Here at home I use Workman verticals. They are good where wind is not a problem. I have the 18 Foot model. Tried one on a water tower and winter winds destroyed it, so went to a G7-144. Been up for 10 years, still straight and swr below 1.4. Used it for Rally Comm as net control. On simplex, with 150 watts out, into that antenna, can you say "hello world". About. 140 feet then in a rohn stand off on the water tower.ERP was calculated at maybe 130 watts to the antenna, then the antenna showed 8.3 dbd or about 1500 watts ERP from the antenna. So if you want to get serious, get a G&-1, pricey antenna but they will perform and last along time.,
 

prcguy

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
8,083
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
I'm going to call out Hustler out on this one because I don't believe their advertising specs. The Hustler G6-144 is not 6dB gain over a dipole, they are stretching the truth, or more likely they don't know how to make and interpret proper antenna range measurements.

Take an actual 6dB gain antenna, a 4 bay dipole array with low loss phasing harness and optimum spacing between elements to actually achieve 6dB gain over a dipole. A 4 bay dipole array with real 6dB omni gain over a dipole is about 21ft long (that's twenty one feet long) at 146MHz.

Then look at a 5/8 wave over infinite ground plane, it has a little more gain than a dipole and the best numbers I can come up with is 3.5dBi or 1.36dB gain over a dipole. If you phase them perfectly at just the right spacing you could have as much as 3dB gain by having two 5/8 antennas stacked vertically, which is what the Hustler G6-144 is.

But that 3dB gain is when you feed equal power to each 5/8 wave section and in a colinear vertical like the Hustler, more than half the power is radiated by the bottom element before the top element is seeing it, so they are not as efficient as elements fed equally like in a dipole array with corporate feed divider. When Celwave does this in a Stationmaster antenna it takes about twice as many 1/2 wave elements in a colinear arrangement to equal the gain of an exposed dipole array with half as many elements. For example, a 21ft long Stationmaster at 146Mhz is rated 5.25dB gain over a dipole and I believe it has eight 1/2 wave coaxial elements inside.

The end result for the Hustler would be at the most 4.36dB gain over a dipole, not 6dB. And the Hustler G6-144 is only 9 3/4ft tall, how or why would you expect as much gain in an antenna less than 10ft tall when it takes a good 20ft of antenna to achieve that much gain?

Sorry about my rant, but I've used Hustler G6-144s and I've got a lot of VHF 4-bay dipole arrays and I can tell you from personal experience, the Hustler G6-144 does not work anywhere as good as a 4-bay dipole array set for an omni pattern. Neither does its bigger and more expensive brother the 15ft long G7-144.

Not that the OP should run out and buy a 4-bay dipole array, just that he should be aware of size matters when it comes to antennas. If something small has fantastic claims, then something is probably wrong.
prcguy back in my hole.

I've tried them all and the hustler is built. much better than the rest and produces a REAL 6db gain overall DIPOLE

the two best built omni antennas on the market are the Hustler G6-144 and the G6-440

the comets and diamonds don't last long in the elements and don't work as we!l as their greatly exaggerated in figures would lead you to believe
 

teufler

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
2,348
Location
ST PETERS, MISSOURI
prcguy, you statements appear you have researched the Hustler Antennas good. The G7 use started when the Club had to replace some antennas. We had db products antennas but they took a lighting strike. Result was a big fiberglass pole about 2 ft tall, with the rest in splinters on the ground. Budget was what it was, a 4 bay was too pricey, the g7 filled the bill. We have 3 remote sites and then 1 repeater. We have had good results, so I purchased one for our car rally event. Wanted something low in maintenance and good in power. We have had no wind or ice problems. It was a good price and its held up good. The performance has been good too as during the rally, we get reports from otherstates who are monitoring us. We have to adjust power a few times. We had tried the Workman UVS-300 Antenna. It was a 3 section, 18 ft tall dual band antenna. 3 sections screwed together with brass couplings. It was good while it lasted, the mounting brackets were just too light weight , to with stand winter winds and thunderstorm wind effects. One winter and the brackets were broken and the antenna was laying flat on the tower rail. So not being professional tower climbers, but safe climbers, we went for something that would hold and was quick to put up. A four bay would be heavier to get up on the water tower so the G7 was the choice,. Its a shame too, we only use the water tower and the antenna, once a year for maybe 5 days. Not often I get to work with an antenna that high as you can get back to anybody you hear and then you do get some new listeners that you havn't planned for..
 

Tracker44

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
263
TNX so much every one for all the great information.
I felt like this was an excellant place to get the best information.
I will be putting this antenna in my attic , got a lot of head room up there so it want be exposed to the elements.So I need to stay close to the 10 or 12 foot range will be important. No metal roof or wireing to deal with.
I can see how some of the marketing today on these antennas can easly lead you in any one direction.

I have used some Comet Duel Band mobil antennas before and had good service from them.

I have found over the years that talking with other Hams is the best place to get the real information.
For my location , just trying to select one that will maybe be a little better than what I am useing at this time.
I will have to pick out a Duel Band vertical from these .
TNX again .
 
Last edited:

prcguy

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
8,083
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
I'm not saying the Hustler G6-144 or G7-144 are bad antennas, they just don't meet the advertised gain specs. They will also probably outlast many other amateur grade antennas depending on your weather.

I had a recent post where my Hustler G7-144 corroded into white dust at some of the element junctions and literally fell off the tower. It worked great until the day it fell apart but I have many other bare aluminum antennas that are much older that have no signs of failure like the aluminum used in the Hustlers.

Due to my antenna failure, I could never recommend a Hustler G7-144 to anyone who lives within eyesight of the ocean like I do, otherwise it is a good performer and will work as well as any other antenna of similar size. But the OP was originally looking for a dual band VHF/UHF base antenna and the Hustlers being recommended are only single band.

With the 10-12ft vertical clearance the OP has and the antenna will be inside an attic, most any antenna will have a long trouble free life. Looks like a Comet GP-6 or similar would be about the highest gain dual band antenna that will fit in that space.
prcguy


prcguy, you statements appear you have researched the Hustler Antennas good. The G7 use started when the Club had to replace some antennas. We had db products antennas but they took a lighting strike. Result was a big fiberglass pole about 2 ft tall, with the rest in splinters on the ground. Budget was what it was, a 4 bay was too pricey, the g7 filled the bill. We have 3 remote sites and then 1 repeater. We have had good results, so I purchased one for our car rally event. Wanted something low in maintenance and good in power. We have had no wind or ice problems. It was a good price and its held up good. The performance has been good too as during the rally, we get reports from otherstates who are monitoring us. We have to adjust power a few times. We had tried the Workman UVS-300 Antenna. It was a 3 section, 18 ft tall dual band antenna. 3 sections screwed together with brass couplings. It was good while it lasted, the mounting brackets were just too light weight , to with stand winter winds and thunderstorm wind effects. One winter and the brackets were broken and the antenna was laying flat on the tower rail. So not being professional tower climbers, but safe climbers, we went for something that would hold and was quick to put up. A four bay would be heavier to get up on the water tower so the G7 was the choice,. Its a shame too, we only use the water tower and the antenna, once a year for maybe 5 days. Not often I get to work with an antenna that high as you can get back to anybody you hear and then you do get some new listeners that you havn't planned for..
 

Tracker44

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
263
TNX prcguy, for your information.
I have been looking at the Comet GP6 Duel Band very close . It seems to be one that fits some of my needs. Just concerned about some bad reviews on E-Ham.
On the other hand I also been looking at the MFJ 1524 , one of the Pulsar antennas with a DB gain rateing..
These two and maybe the Diamond out of the ones listed are the ones that I have been looking at the most.
TNX againg for shareing the information with me.
 

n0jy

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
9
Location
Granbury, TX
I have used a GP-6 for years, both outdoors and now indoors. From my attic at about 20 feet AGL at the base of the antenna, I easily and typically work repeaters 60 miles away and 30+ miles away over the ridge into Fort Worth. I have had no problems with it, I think it does an excellent job.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

Tracker44

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
263
TNX N0JY for the your information on the Comet GP-6 . Since I have used some Comet antennas on my mobil with good results it is I guess you could say in my top 3.
Those folks at Comet headquarters have all ways been very nice when talking to them also.
Great looking Shack also.
TNX again.
 

scanmanmi

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
495
Location
Central Michigan
Don't forget the Coax

I haven't had many Ham verticals but I got a Comet GP-9 with LMR400 coax at 30' and it far exceeded my expectaions. I can simplex about 45 miles. On a good day I can cover repeaters over half the state. Been up for years in all kinds of storms with no problems.
 

Tracker44

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
263
Hello scanmanmi , TNX for your information on the GP9.
I have looked at that Comet antenna which is 16 ft. and 9 inches long which that maybe a little too long for my attic, other wise it would be great canidate for me.
Its nice to know that your have some good results with it.
TNX again
 

teufler

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
2,348
Location
ST PETERS, MISSOURI
PRCGUY, Crap I read that he said dual band and had a height limitation, just did not register with me. So the G7's have a salt water problem. Don't have much salt in Missouri though do have ice.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top