Washington County Service Net TG

[wolfpac2499]

OK so I am stumped and I am sure its just me being a bozo... But I have a question about the Washington County Service Net talk group.

I listen to South Cites on the CCOM/WCCCA system a lot. From time to time the south cities agencies need to switch to "channel 3" to run DL's and get other info without clogging the primary dispatch channel. I thought they switched over to the TGID 60272 (Wash. Co. Service Net) when they did this, however I get nothing... However once City Net opens at midnight i start getting all of the traffic just fine across that talk group. Is there another TGID that is out there that I am missing? Am I the only person having this issue (which is highly possible)? I'm just stumped on this. Its really sucks when your trying to follow a call and you know they are making the switch but you don't pick up anything across the "channel 3" talk group.

Thanks in advance.

 

[oregontreehugger]

They could be making a direct phone call to a WCCCA desk instead of actually using their agency's "Ch. 3" to grab more sensitive info over the air. Alternatively, if they are a large enough department have their own records/service desk (Hillsboro, Tigard, Beaverton), they may be running info on that TG, especially if WCCCA gets busy.

 

[PMJ2kx]

Service Net was up and running just fine - in fact, there were a lot of TriMet units on there yesterday.

Which site do you listen via - Site 2 or Site 1?

 

[wolfpac2499]

PMJ2kx you may be on to something as since i am on the eastside I have a really hard time pulling in the WCCCA frequencies from Tanasbourne on my little portable, so i trunk off the Clackamas simulcast site which I think is in Oregon City. So it may be that I'm not getting everything broadcast from WCCCA... I think I hear most everything just fine but its just weird that the service net talk group is the only thing I am having a hard time catching until it goes to city net at night. Maybe its just me not paying attention... I don't know.

 

[PMJ2kx]

Well, there are a couple of guesses (and I'm no radio expert by any means): 1) there are no radios affiliated with that talkgroup on Site 2 when you listen, 2a) it is purposefully engineered that way so it reduces traffic on Site 2 (no need to do WC-related checks on the CC system; this frees up a frequency that would be in use otherwise), or 2b) there is too much traffic on Site 2 to allow broadcast.

And...one other question for you - are you hearing City Net on its' actual talkgroup, or are you hearing it on South Cities? A couple of months back, they were just patching Hillsboro and South Cities together, instead of switching channels.

 

[wolfpac2499]

It could possibly be the CC simulcast doesn't broadcast the WC service net. I have been listening for about 30 min now and haven't seen the service net TG come up once. It may just be slow, but with all of the Tri-Met and Evel Knievel units out there seems odd for them not to run anyone on service net. Also it could be that i was just getting the Hillsboro patch over at night on south cities but i was pretty sure it was showing the service/city net TGID. I'll try and monitor tonight closely and see what i come up with.

 

[PMJ2kx]

Yup, Service Net is up and running full steam. I'm showing last key-up was at 5:18 PM.

I'll also set up my 396XT and log the overnight adventures of our wayward radio system...

 

[radiotweester]

Just a heads up regarding Ch 3 being used as City Net (where South Cities and Hillsboro would use ch 3 as Primary). This ended as the last few months of 2012. Now WCCCA patches South Cities 1 and Hillsboro Ch 1 (same as WC Ops 37 and a police channel when Fire responds to staging calls).
From what I can tell South Cities output is not heard, but Hillsboro Ch 1 receives normally.

 

[PMJ2kx]

Just a heads up regarding Ch 3 being used as City Net (where South Cities and Hillsboro would use ch 3 as Primary). This ended as the last few months of 2012. Now WCCCA patches South Cities 1 and Hillsboro Ch 1 (same as WC Ops 37 and a police channel when Fire responds to staging calls).
From what I can tell South Cities output is not heard, but Hillsboro Ch 1 receives normally.

And that probably depends on how they patch it (South 1 > Hillsboro 1 or Hillsboro 1 > South 1). My 246T will only bring up one or the other, while my 396XT (because it knows how to handle the patch) will display the TG + 3 (60851 or 60531).

Do you know if they patch it the same way every time?

Thanks for the confirmation on that, by the way.

 

[radiotweester]

As near as I can tell it seems to always be patched the same way. HPD 1 TG 60528 is active and South Cities is off.
The same is true with response on OPS37 TG50608.

*I monitor only the WCCCA Main TRS, not a fill-in or CCOM site.

 

[wolfpac2499]

So listening last night I have officially decided that the simulcast from site 2 does not have all of the WCCCA traffic on it. Again I think its probably like you said PMJ2kx that they don't patch everything over into the Clackamas side as not to tie up all of the frequencies and leave things open for the CCOM or CCSO/Clack Fire traffic. Now thats just a tin foil hat theory I have, but it makes sense. I heard nothing on WC City/Service net TG (thanks for confirming the patch over too radiotweester) and also when they called a "signal 2" last night on SC 1 i didn't hear any traffic on SC 2 TG. Really wish I could find out what was being patched over to site 2 just so I can stop pulling my hair out on this one.

 

[DickH]

... Really wish I could find out what was being patched over to site 2 just so I can stop pulling my hair out on this one.

It doesn't seem to make much sense that someone in East Portland would be "pulling their hair out" over something going on in WCCCA land, unless he had a business or something over there. There's certainly enough going on over here in East Portland.

 

[wolfpac2499]

I have a bunch of friends in WCSO and in the South Cities that I like following. Makes my evenings a little fun listening to some of the stuff they are going though... I've tried following Portland's east county stuff but honestly I can just open my window and listen to them that way. : )

 

[Gezelle007]

So listening last night I have officially decided that the simulcast from site 2 does not have all of the WCCCA traffic on it. Again I think its probably like you said PMJ2kx that they don't patch everything over into the Clackamas side as not to tie up all of the frequencies and leave things open for the CCOM or CCSO/Clack Fire traffic. Now thats just a tin foil hat theory I have, but it makes sense. I heard nothing on WC City/Service net TG (thanks for confirming the patch over too radiotweester) and also when they called a "signal 2" last night on SC 1 i didn't hear any traffic on SC 2 TG. Really wish I could find out what was being patched over to site 2 just so I can stop pulling my hair out on this one.

Technically it's not about where it's patched. It's about who's listening. If there was a police or fire unit monitoring South Cities or any other Washington County talk group FROM the Site 2 system, your scanner would pick it up. But as soon as the system realizes there are no radios on Site 2 that need to hear things from Site 1, it will stop broadcasting from there. And it's Vice Versa for any Clackamas units monitoring from Site 1.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it is programmed in the system architecture so that if you are listening to a Washington County talkgroup, it will be your radio's 'preference' to be on a Washington County site. It will only switch if it can't get a good signal from any of the other sites.

 

[DickH]

... I can just open my window and listen to them that way. : )

LOL. Especially if you're in far SE. I was in Truck 7 the other night when we went from one call to another for about two hours before we got back to the station.

 

[radiotweester]

Service net patching

Ok... For the first time Hillsboro was patched to South Cities 1 (so you had to listen to South Cities 1 for Hillsboro audio). This is the first time I've observed this since the change from "Ch3 City Net"

 

[Gezelle007]

Ok... For the first time Hillsboro was patched to South Cities 1 (so you had to listen to South Cities 1 for Hillsboro audio). This is the first time I've observed this since the change from "Ch3 City Net"

Make sure you set your status bit ignore setting to "on" so you don't miss conversations.

When a TG is patched, it will have a code at the very end that changes the value of the regular talkgroup ID we are used to seeing. The subscribers on the system don't know the difference and they don't have to make any special changes. But for scanners, If a dispatcher patches South Cities 1 to HPD 1, the talkgroup ID wouldn't be the same anymore, it would be 60848 +3 so 60851. So if your scanner is set up right, and you have it set to ignore those end codes, you won't notice the changes, and all should be well.

The same codes are applied to the talkgroup if someone hits their emergency button. It's "whatever talkgroup ID" +2 for an emergency button press. So if someone on WCSO 1 hits their emergency button, the talkgroup actually channels from 64048 to 64050. So if you've never heard the SO dispatcher say "I'm getting emergency tones for '5331', 10-52 please.." - then your scanner might not be ignoring them.

 

[V_A_R_I_A_B_L_E]

Anyone wanna give me the quick 'n' dirty on what "status bits" are and the significance of ignoring or not ignoring, and how that pertains to the scanners that I have, which are GRE PSR-400 and PSR-310?

I don't recall ever seeing any settings related to "status bits" for these two scanners, and if they don't have whatever capability is required to "ignore", then is there some sort of talkgroup-ID-aritimetic workaround I need to implement? Thanks in advance!

 

[rosecitytransit]

Anyone wanna give me the quick 'n' dirty on what "status bits" are and the significance of ignoring or not ignoring, and how that pertains to the scanners that I have, which are GRE PSR-400 and PSR-310?

I've seen the info somewhere else, but it appears Wikipedia has it: Motorola Type II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically, a talk group ID actually includes a range between ID and ID+15, with each number representing a different status for that talk group. So, a transmission can be tagged as "emergency", "patched with another talk group", etc.

"Ignoring status bits" controls whether or not a scanner picks up transmissions tagged differently (with a different actual ID then the one entered). It provides the capability of only listening to, say, emergency transmissions on a talk group, or blocking it when it's patched.

I'm not sure what those specific scanners do regarding status bits. They may just not differentiate between the different statuses.

 

[Gezelle007]

I've seen the info somewhere else, but it appears Wikipedia has it: Motorola Type II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically, a talk group ID actually includes a range between ID and ID+15, with each number representing a different status for that talk group. So, a transmission can be tagged as "emergency", "patched with another talk group", etc.

"Ignoring status bits" controls whether or not a scanner picks up transmissions tagged differently (with a different actual ID then the one entered). It provides the capability of only listening to, say, emergency transmissions on a talk group, or blocking it when it's patched.

I'm not sure what those specific scanners do regarding status bits. They may just not differentiate between the different statuses.

Isolinear, What he ^ said

Anyone wanna give me the quick 'n' dirty on what "status bits" are and the significance of ignoring or not ignoring, and how that pertains to the scanners that I have, which are GRE PSR-400 and PSR-310?

I don't recall ever seeing any settings related to "status bits" for these two scanners, and if they don't have whatever capability is required to "ignore", then is there some sort of talkgroup-ID-aritimetic workaround I need to implement? Thanks in advance!

And I think your scanners are probably new enough that you don't have to worry about it, mine however is old and I had to change that setting. I kept missing things with it on. I think the default was set to off for some reason.