Weird Issue

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k1agh

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Ok so I live in rural coastal Maine but for the life of me I can't figure out why I can't get good reception on any of my shortwave radios. I've tried different antennas and such inside and out to no avail. I do live in a valley of sort would that cause an issue? I'm thinking of getting a Wellbrook but would it be a waste of money if I'm having issues with any antenna I try? Is there something better then a Wellbrook I can build?
 

autovon

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What kind of antennas have you tried? What frequencies are you trying to listen to?
 

ka3jjz

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Also keep in mind that HF listening is nowhere near like scanners - there's another factor that can greatly influence what you hear. In broad terms, we talk about 'propagation' - how the sun interacts with our ionosphere and causes HF signals to refract. We've had several disturbances (including one flare) in the last couple of weeks, which would signficantly disrupt your reception, particularly since you're so far north.

Take a look at this website - you'll need your Flash player to be turned on - to get a basic handle on what is going on...

Propagation Primer - Flash Movie by AE4RV

and a good place to go to see current conditions would be;

SpaceWeather.com -- News and information about meteor showers, solar flares, auroras, and near-Earth asteroids

Mike
 

k1agh

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So far north? Lol you make me sound like i'm in the Yukon. Since Ive been trying to listen to shortwave for the past two years my reception has sucked. The antenna on the radios and the long wire ones I've tried either brought or made haven't helped. Someone suggested a active antenna, magnetic antenna or something like the Wellbrook.
 

ka3jjz

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Well from my point of view (Maryland), you are very far north (hi)

Of course that Grundig isn't all that great. And I would hesitate to put something like a Wellbrook or a Pixel loop on it - the likelihood is that it would simply overload it. You can only do so much with portables.

Since you said 'shortwave radios' in your message, what other ones do you have? What antennas did you try? Are you running your RF gain almost (not quite) maximum? Are you connecting the antennas you tried to the F connector in the back, and make sure that the antenna switch on the right side of the radio is set to EXT? How much room have you got outside to play with?

Yes propagation hasn't been all that great over the last 2 years or so. We were supposed to be in a solar maximum, but as has been widely documented, this is the weakest max in 50 - some say 100 - years. And unfortunately it's not likely to get much better, even though there are those that suggest we might have a slow peak coming up. There's a good amount of debate about this...

What are you trying to hear? When are you listening? More importantly, where are you trying to listen?

We have lots of links for both wire antennas and loops in our wiki....

Lots of questions...Mike
 
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w2xq

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There's really not enough information here to really help you. What receiver(s) are you using? What are you trying to listen to (services, bands, areas of the world, etc) at what times of the day? Are you in a noisy environment, or is it quiet? How long, high was your random wire?

In your area, you would be somewhat affected by the auroral zone when the sun burps but that would only limit signals transversing the zone itself.

I have spent quite a bit of time near Southwest Harbor, Mt Desert Island and near Burlington, Vermont. With a portable radio SWBC stations from Africa and Europe were plentiful. Signals from Asia over the pole were poorer than here at 40°N. Sackville transmitters and WBCQ weren't heard; too close for skywave and too far for ground wave reception.

In any case, RR members probably need a bit more specific information to effectively help you. HTH.
 

vagrant

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Adding to the questions above:
Is the wire vertical or horizontal? If horizontal what direction does it run N/S, E/W? How is it mounted and how is it connected to the radio?
How close is the nearest AM station broadcast tower?
Can you hear WWV on 2500 and 5000 kHz at night? How is the signal?
Can you hear WWV on 10000, 15000, and 20000 kHz during the day? How is the signal?
 

k1agh

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Hopefully this answers all the questions. First I'm using the Grundig, the World Synthesizer Radio and a Realistic DX-100 which actually works better then the first two. I've tried all types of long wire antennas in different lengths and shapes and in vertical and horizontal. On some nights I can hear Radio Havana Cuba clearer then the religious stations in Florida and some nights I get static. I hear WWV fine most of the time, sometimes static. The closest AM tower is about 20 miles away but we have cellphone and the states and counties radio towers around here. Our electric company just installed the smart meters on the houses and the receivers on the poles on our street. I did ask a co-worker who is a ham and loves shortwave and he said that certain areas in this county are spotty due to the mountains but also all the communication towers on them. He was the one who recommended the Wellbrook or a diy loop antenna outside but not to be used on the Grundig because of overload. The DX-100 seems to get a better signal then the Grundig and the radio shack radio works better when using ssb. Oh and the antennas have been inside and outside and still no improvement. Anything I can do to improve or am I stuck with the propagation issue someone mentioned until it clears up? And the sw station in Maine in Monticello I never get unless i use a online app.
 

k9rzz

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My guess is that if you can hear WWV most of the time (which freqs?) then your setup is working okay. There are locations that are just plain stinko for prop, maybe due to mountains or high iron content in the ground (like upper peninsula of Michigan). Sure you're near the 'auroral zone', but we in the upper midwest are even more so. Tell us what you're trying to hear, but unable.
 

ka3jjz

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Again, how are you connecting your antenna? Are you just clipping it to the whip (not recommended - one zap from static electricity and the radio goes deaf...) or are you using the F jack in the back with an adapter (Universal sells them but I bet you might be able to find them at a RS store - while they're still around...).

Remember to slide the antenna switch at the right of the radio to EXT if you are using the F jack...and the RF gain control should be almost all the way to the right, depending on whether you are experiencing some overloading when the outdoor antenna is used. If you start hearing MW stations in the HF bands, for example, back off the RF gain.

If you are listening from roughly 4PM through the evening, you should confine your tuning from around 12 Mhz (which might stay open for a couple of hours after sunset) down. Due to the season (which you will learn about in that flash video site I gave earlier) the lower frequencies will propagate better, assuming the sun isn't kicking up its heels again with more flares or the solar wind is hitting us.

Mike
 

Boombox

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Are you surrounded by hills? If so, the hills may reduce some long distance signals that come in at low angles.

If you live in a valley, take advantage of the terrain and if you mount a directional antenna of any sort (even a dipole), aim it in the direction that makes the most of whatever lowest horizon you have.

Another thing to remember is Maine can sometimes be in the radio auroral zone, which can degrade reception on certain parts of the SW spectrum if there is auroral activity.

The following link shows the radio auroral zone, and has lines on it showing the Maximum Usable Frequency for most areas of the Earth. It can sometimes be helpful in showing why SW or long distance MW reception can be spotty.

Near-Real-Time MUF Map
 

w2xq

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I can't find a model number of your Grundig radio given the generic terms; I assume it is an older entry-level portable. The RS DX-100 is a bit old in the tooth being built c.1983 and it is described as a entry-level receiver. http://www.freeinfostuff.com/DX100-200/DX100-200.htm Maybe check the specs from the manual on that web site and see if your radio is up to snuff? Has it ever been exposed to a lightning strike or power surge? Components do age, especially capacitors.

Frankly, I would suspect the radios' performance before blaming propagation.

With all due respect you may want to consider upgrading to a more recent tabletop radio or a higher quality new portable radio before spending any money on amplified loops or shortie indoor antennas.

Under most conditions a random long wire antenna outside, away from the house and electric power poles, should always yield better results than something inside the house. I'm assuming you can hang something at a height of 20 feet or higher.

A random wire installed vertically (say, to the top of a tree) should receive better low skywave angle signals from further distances. For the receivers you now have, something 30-50 feet long should be sufficient.

I can't imagine the terrain in your area of Maine as inhibiting SW reception, even if you are in a shallow valley. If anything, being near the salt water should be an advantage.

FWIW Universal Radio in Ohio has a longtime good relationship with SWLs, and carries virtually every receiver and portable made. Their used (and checked) equipment inventory is usually worth looking at. I have no vested interest in Universal Radio.

You also have a Ham Radio Outlet (HRO) store in Salem, NH. One of the large dealers in the country, there should be a decent selection of receivers and portables to look at. It might be worth a phone call or day trip. Same caveat applies.

YMMV.

In any case the reference material in the RR wiki should help.

HTH.
 

Thunderknight

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Try turning off as many circuit breakers in your how as possible (all is best and then use battery on your radio) and see if it improves. If so, then you have a local noise issue to find and resolve.
 

Boombox

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Even cheaper radios attached to 15-20 ft of wire should bring in a handful of signals on the main shortwave bands at night when propagation is good -- which is why I mentioned propagation, terrain, and possibly the orientation of TomInBelfast's antenna, as opposed to the fault being with his radios.

The way TomInBelfast is talking, it sounds like he doesn't hear anything except WWV, Radio Havana, and maybe WWCR.

So one thing TomInBelfast could do to help folks here determine his reception problem would be for him to do a bandscan of the 49, 31 and 25 meter bands over the course of a few evenings and tell us how many stations he hears.

There have been nights with mediocre propagation I've heard maybe a handful of stations on each of those bands. Other nights when prop is better I'll hear 10-15 or more.
 

k1agh

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What direction if any should a long wire antenna go and is a Beverage Antenna something I can try?
 

Boombox

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What direction if any should a long wire antenna go and is a Beverage Antenna something I can try?

A longer wire might be worth trying, if you have the area to put it up.

When you get a wire antenna that is more than a wavelength long (somewhere just above 100 ft. for the 31 meter band) the antenna starts to get directional off the end of the antenna (sort of like a cloverleaf).

So if you live in a valley (you haven't said how narrow the valley is, or how high the hills are), run the long antenna diagonally, with the end pointed diagonally towards either end of the valley. I had a 100 ft. antenna set up diagonally in the valley where I live (approx. 150 ft.hills on each side, which degrade reception from those directions) and it worked very well.

Depending on your signal strengths off the antenna, a longer wire may overload your radios. It's possible the World Receiver and DX-100 would overload (I don't know anything about the Grundig), but you would get more signal with a longer wire. You'd just have to deal with overload images. You may get RTTY sounding interference in the middle of a shortwave broadcast band on a couple frequencies. If you tune the utility frequencies between SW bands you may hear images of SW stations there.

I was able to run a 100 ft. wire into my Realistic DX-390 in the 1990's (before the antenna blew down) and had relatively little overload -- about the same as I get on my 25 ft. indoor wire. But then, I don't live in a high signal area. My RS PLL World Receiver 20-629 has roughly similar circuitry inside (4 stages of IF filtering on SW, 3 IF amps), so I'm sure at my own low signal location it could probably handle 100 ft. o.k. as well. But it would also get images. It works the same as my DX-390 off my indoor wire (a handful of images, mostly in between SW bands), so I'm guessing on a longer wire it would be the same.

At other locations in the U.S. a longer wire could overload the radio a lot worse. Even a 15 ft. indoor wire on my DX-390 made my radio virtually useless when I took it with me to northern Louisiana (it worked great off the whip, though). So keep this in mind. When you have radios that aren't $500-1000 tabletops, there always is a tradeoff when you use a longer antenna (overload vs. more limited reception) -- you just have to work within the limitations of the radios.

If your radio overloads you can always switch in the attenuator switch (DX/Local switch on the left side of the World Receiver) to "Local". If your DX-100 or Grundig have RF Gain controls you could crank them down. Another trick using a portable with a longer antenna is using the whip antenna on the radio, and placing it near the end of the long wire without actually touching it to the wire. You can still get some enhanced reception, but the radio won't overload as much.

I don't know about your other radios, but the World Receiver has internal diode protection on the external antenna jack only. So if you attach an outdoor antenna to that radio use the external jack only. If you attach it to the whip antenna you will risk zapping the RF amp FET transistor if there is a static discharge.

If you use a long wire it might be a good thing to build that antenna protector frequently posted on this forum (a simple circuit using diodes -- another poster here has the schematic) to keep static from zapping your radios. A little extra precaution never hurts. Even just two diodes between the antenna and a ground (in reverse polarity from each other) will bleed off static electricity.

It still would be helpful if you could tell us more what you are hearing now -- how many stations -- even if you don't understand the languages of the stations.

Hope this helps some.
 
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