Baofeng Well, what's the conclusion?

[NoiseLimited]

Being new to the board and it being Sunday morning, I decided to read through all 20 pages of the "FCC Advisory" thread. I haven't kept up with any of the stuff about the imported radios, so I was interested to see what was happening. Lots of emotion and vitriol in the thread similar to much of what I read on some of the ham boards when these radios starting popping up. A boatload of these radios have been sold and they have been a particular favorite amongst the prepper and 2A groups (AR15.com). I'm sure they have an appeal to those of us that have that old pirate bone. It reminds me a little of the influx of all the Japanese CB radios using PLLs in the 70s. A little snip or cut here, a resistor or diode there and a little knowledge of binary or BCD coding and you had a 200 channel radio.

If you're really into MURS and have a community of users in your area, who wouldn't want a 50 watt base station? How about a family outing where everyone has a 7 watt FRS HT with a 5/8 wave whip - at least you won't lose contact with anybody. Playing devil's advocate here, but I suspect there are many instances of this occurring. I followed many of the links in the earlier thread and read some information on a few other sites. And then... And then... I went over to Amazon and found the Btech 50 watt mobile and the 82HP HT still being sold followed by reviews posted since January of this year. So can anyone decipher what has actually changed since September of last year?

I don't have one of the Baofeng radios, but will admit the bootlegger in me has been tempted. Yeah, lets stick it to the man. Sorry, a bit of the 60s radical bleeding through.

 

[KK4JUG]

I think the general consensus out of 20 pages was: "Too little, too late."

 

[Golay]

My attitude is kind of like JUG's. To late to close the gate now, all the cows have left the barnyard.

And I'll get flamed a bit for this comment, but who really cares who talks analog anymore?
Yeah, a little too much power on FRS or MURS or GMRS.
But it seems to me anyone with critical needs isn't (or maybe I dare say shouldn't) be depending on any of those for communications anyway.

One comment about the original post, leave the 8 watt handhelds alone. It may be nice to have the greater range, but myself putting 8 watts of RF up next to my head seems not to be a good idea. Paying a bit more for a lower power radio is a wiser choice.
Keep in mind, the reason one 1/2 watt Moto FRS cost three times as much as a bubble pack pair of 1/2 watt Cobras is because the Moto can RECIEVE three times as far.

 

[mmckenna]

The conclusion is that if you have a real need for a reliable radio, you get yourself a reliable radio.

If you are a hobby user, a prepper, and amateur, or someone that doesn't know the difference, you get a cheap Chinese radio and be happy with it.

Anyone that thinks a $15 radio is as good or as reliable as a purpose built LMR radio doesn't know what they are doing, and thus the "opinions" about their reliability, quality, spectral purity, or filtering is pretty much invalid.

If you want a disposable radio, are not using it in a high RF environment, don't care about interference and don't care about quality, then it might be a good $15.00 radio.

But in no way are they anything more than a cheap disposable radio. Being realistic about what they are and what they are not is the first step in making a good decision.

 

[KK4JUG]

Early on, I had several different CCRs. They've all been trashed except for one. I needed a portable broadcast FM radio.

 

[robertmac]

The conclusion is that if you have a real need for a reliable radio, you get yourself a reliable radio.

If you are a hobby user, a prepper, and amateur, or someone that doesn't know the difference, you get a cheap Chinese radio and be happy with it.

Anyone that thinks a $15 radio is as good or as reliable as a purpose built LMR radio doesn't know what they are doing, and thus the "opinions" about their reliability, quality, spectral purity, or filtering is pretty much invalid.

If you want a disposable radio, are not using it in a high RF environment, don't care about interference and don't care about quality, then it might be a good $15.00 radio.

But in no way are they anything more than a cheap disposable radio. Being realistic about what they are and what they are not is the first step in making a good decision.

Some amateurs do know the difference.

 

[NoiseLimited]

I'm by no means any sort of master of the FCC rules for the different services. I see there is a September 30 deadline for transceivers that are imported and operate across various services. Will anything happen then? I really didn't think radios like the 82HP or UV5R could possibly comply with Part 90 or 95. But that's just my interpretation. Will they skirt by with a nod to Part 97? I understand the difference between "Type Approved" and "Type Accepted" (not sure if that's the current terminology - it was 30 years ago), so where will these radios fit?

I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't have one of these radios and despite their reputed "failings", I don't really have a bone to pick with those new hams who buy these when they are just getting started in the hobby. I remember when the no-code Tech license first opened. There were quite a number of new Techs minted. Then 6 or 7 months later, I saw quite a number of expensive Icom and Yaesu HTs being sold cheaply. HTs of any type were really expensive back then. Comparatively, HTs from the big three are much cheaper now than they were then. Inflation-adjust a $250 HT from 1992 till now and see what that number is. But it's all relative to how much pain in the pocketbook you can endure. Most hobbies, other than collecting pocket lint, can get expensive.

Cheers

 

[mmckenna]

I'm by no means any sort of master of the FCC rules for the different services. I see there is a September 30 deadline for transceivers that are imported and operate across various services. Will anything happen then? I really didn't think radios like the 82HP or UV5R could possibly comply with Part 90 or 95. But that's just my interpretation. Will they skirt by with a nod to Part 97? I understand the difference between "Type Approved" and "Type Accepted" (not sure if that's the current terminology - it was 30 years ago), so where will these radios fit?

Probably nothing will happen.
The FCC doesn't have much in the way of "teeth" to make things change. They can write up scary messages and threaten, but that's about it. Any enforcement is limited to fines. They can bring in the US Marshall service for "hands on" type stuff, but that's rare. Kind of hard to fine an overseas company for violations. They can fine the US based dealers, but most of them are mom-n-pop shops that will just fold. So many of them are sold directly out of China on e-Bay and Amazon. E-Bay and Amazon should crack down on it, but I'm not going to hold my breath. They'll just find some way to weasel out of the responsibility.

Ultimately this comes down to the FCC and their failure to enforce their own rules. The type acceptance thing is there, but poorly managed. They allow the manufacturers to pick their own testing labs. The testing lab files the paperwork and the FCC rubber stamps it. It's only when there is an issue discovered that the FCC takes a close look. They have rubber stamped things they shouldn't have in the past.

For Part 90 and Part 95, they do need the type acceptance, and I think the current model of allowing the manufacturer to run the process is flawed. But I really don't have much faith that the FCC could do much better.

There is no Part 97 certification. The transmitters don't need that to be legal. They do require meeting Part 15 certifications on the receiver, but that's about it. I really don't think anyone has an issue with these things on the amateur bands, as long as the emissions stay where they belong and are low enough outside the ham allocations to not cause issues. Testing by individuals has shown that the transmitters put out spurs all over the place, including in non-amateur parts of the spectrum.


As for the dog in the fight, I don't like these things on my systems. Too many issues trying to accommodate them. The ones that have been use usually sound like crap, and the receivers sound bad. The end user tries to blame the radio system, because it could never be the $15 radio they bought off e-Bay, and then it's up to me to prove where the issue lies.

One of the reasons I like trunked systems, I can control who is on the system, what equipment they use, and I don't have to put up with the cheap stuff.

I've got no issue with them on the amateur bands, as long as they stay there. I remember buying my first amateur portable. I think it was $450 or so, and that was a heck of a lot of money at the time. I probably would have bought a cheap radio if they'd been available back then. However after 30+ years doing this sort of work, I would have learned my lesson and still be where I am now, with proper gear.