What does narrow band mean? Are any HAM radios made narrowband capable?

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callahanfirebuff

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What does narrowband mean?
I am looking to purchase either a base tranceiver or mobile transceiver(VHF/UHF).
I would like the radio to be narrowband capable.
Do you have any suggestions?
I am an ARES member and would like to use the radio to monitor public safety(that will be narrowbanding per FCC later this year)

73,
KK4JVR
 

mmckenna

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Wide band: 5KHz deviation, uses a 25KHz wide channel.
Narrow band: 2.5KHz deviation, uses a 12.5KHz wide channel.

As you mentioned, as of January 01, 2013, most part 90 users in the VHF and UHF bands need to be narrow band. Low band VHF is not affected, neither is 800MHz, Ham radio, GMRS, CB, Marine VHF. FRS and MURS are already narrow band, and have been since their respective beginnings. There are a few paging frequencies that are allowed to remain wide, but that's it.

Most newer amateur radios out there, at least the ones I've seen in the last few years, are narrow band capable. The more recent Yaesu and Kenwood radios have been. Ones I know of for sure:
Yaesu FT-7800 and 7900
Yaesu FT-1820
Yaesu VX-170

Kenwood TM-D710

Pretty sure my Icom IC-2200 was, also.

All new LMR radios have been required to be narrow band capable for quite a while now. Since a number of the amateur radios are based off commercial rigs, they have been following along.

The reason behind forcing users to Narrow band is that you can fit more users into the limited amount of spectrum available. It's been in the works for a long time now.

FCC is already hinting that there will be another "narrow banding" likely coming in down the road. Going from 12.5KHz to 6.25 currently requires going digital to get enough space to get useable human voices. You don't need to worry about that now.
 
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nd5y

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How can I find out if a radio I am interested in is narrow band capable?

Download the user's manual from the manufacturer's web site and look at the specifications.

Most ham rigs allow you to transmit narrowband but most don't have narrow receive filters or 2.5 kHz synthesizer steps on VHF.

You can still receive narrowband on a wideband only ham rig with no problem.

For more infomation see http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Narrowbanding
 
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mmckenna

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Right, check the specifications on the radio.
I forgot about the RX vs TX issue that some ham radios have. An annoying issue, but it is what it is.

If this is a critical feature, and you think you may need to transmit on these frequencies some day, I'd strongly encourage you to take a look a commercial radio that is properly type accepted. Any new radio, or any radio built in the last 10 years or so will be narrow band capable. Kenwood Icom, Motorola to name a few. There are a lot of excellent deals out there right now. I've finished replacing all my ham radios with commercial stuff in the last few months. I maintain a number of radio systems and it made sense for me to get the right stuff for the job. While many hams will decry the lack of a VFO, you will find that most modern radios have more than sufficient memory to load in all the repeaters and simplex frequencies you would likely use. You would also avoid the legality issues of hacking up a ham radio to trick it into working outside the Ham bands.

But, as Tom mentioned, a wide band radio will receive narrow band transmissions just fine, you'll just have to crank up the volume a bit more to compensate for the lower deviation. I did this for about a year on the VHF radio in my work truck after we narrow banded our fire department. Just crank the volume up or better yet, add an external speaker.
 

N8IAA

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The only ham radio that truly does the narrowband frequencies is the Kenwood TM-281A. The filtering in VHF ham radios do not have the capability to receive the narrow bandwidth of the transmitted signal. You will hear the public service transmissions, but at a lower audio level. You might consider getting a commercial radio that you can use as a VHF ham radio and lets you monitor the narrowband frequencies also.
HTH,
Larry
 

Ed_Seedhouse

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The only ham radio that truly does the narrowband frequencies is the Kenwood TM-281A. The filtering in VHF ham radios do not have the capability to receive the narrow bandwidth of the transmitted signal.

Well, my ICOM T-70A specifies a TX signal deviation on narrow band as +/- 2.5 KHZ and on RX a selectvity on FM (Narrow) of 60db, exactly the same as for FM (Wide)

I have not measured the radio. Have you?
 

W2NJS

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For the benefit of newbies and others whose information comes from threads such as this, please note that the MURS channels are narrowband for the bottom three channels, with wideband allowed for the top two, and have had this requirement since the service was set up several years ago, and this setup has nothing to do with the new narrowbanding requirements for Part 90 radios, MURS being Part 95.
 

N8IAA

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Well, my ICOM T-70A specifies a TX signal deviation on narrow band as +/- 2.5 KHZ and on RX a selectvity on FM (Narrow) of 60db, exactly the same as for FM (Wide)

I have not measured the radio. Have you?

Well, there ya go Ed. You've pointed him to a radio he can use:D
Larry
 

mmckenna

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For the benefit of newbies and others whose information comes from threads such as this, please note that the MURS channels are narrowband for the bottom three channels, with wideband allowed for the top two, and have had this requirement since the service was set up several years ago, and this setup has nothing to do with the new narrowbanding requirements for Part 90 radios, MURS being Part 95.

You are correct, however it should be noted that the lower three channels are allowed 2.5KHz deviation on FM, they are required to be in a 11.25KHz wide channel. The upper two frequencies are allowed 5KHz deviation on FM, but use a 20KHz wide channel.
 
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nd5y

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... and on RX a selectvity on FM (Narrow) of 60db, exactly the same as for FM (Wide)

If the radio really has narrowband receive the manual should have two sets of selectivity specs, not to be confused with the filter slope at two points such as 6dB at 12 kHz and 60dB at 25 kHz.
 

WA0CBW

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You might also want to see if the radio can do narrowband on a channel by channel basis. Some of the early radios were either/or. That is ALL the channels were either wide or they were ALL narrow but not on an individual channel basis.

BB
 

phillmobile

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The only ham radio that truly does the narrowband frequencies is the Kenwood TM-281A. The filtering in VHF ham radios do not have the capability to receive the narrow bandwidth of the transmitted signal. You will hear the public service transmissions, but at a lower audio level. You might consider getting a commercial radio that you can use as a VHF ham radio and lets you monitor the narrowband frequencies also.
HTH,
Larry

All radios in europe are narrow band commercial and ham, no one uses wideband except marine radios, i yeah they can do it its just you yanks who dont, and its all the same gear
 

kb2vxa

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Now why would you want narrow band that would make your audio low to everybody else and everybody else sound distorted to you? I tried it with my Icom and all I got was complaints so I went back to standard, problem solved.
 

AK9R

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Guys, you are responding to a 12-month-old thread and arguing about it to boot.

Your posts have been deleted.
 

KE4RWS

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Many radio's here in the USA are already narrow band but from experience I can say I traveled Europe last year and I monitored plenty of stations that were not using narrow bandwidth radio's. We have a deadline coming up where everyone in the USA will have to be switched to narrow-band but just like the limeys, I'm sure we too will have stragglers who will hold out until MADE to do so.
 

rapidcharger

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We have a deadline coming up where everyone in the USA will have to be switched to narrow-band but just like the limeys, I'm sure we too will have stragglers who will hold out until MADE to do so.

What deadline?
What are you talking about?

And why do people have to reply to 1 year old threads literally on the thread's birthday? Whats up with that?
 

KE4RWS

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What deadline?
What are you talking about?

And why do people have to reply to 1 year old threads literally on the thread's birthday? Whats up with that?

Actually it should have read "the deadline that took place this past January". Little mistake there.

As far as replying to a "year-old thread", are we not supposed to post replies beyond a certain time frame? My reply was in direct response to phillmobile who stated All radios in europe are narrow band commercial and ham. I was merely setting the record straight on this issue by stating I was in Europe last year within the time-frame of his posting and noticed lots of wide-band activity.

I've seen plenty of people, loads actually, who post two and THREE years after the last activity and if the comment was relevant to the discussion there's nary a word mentioned about it being a problem. People usually just pick up the conversation from there and go with it. Are we really talking about a problem here? :confused:
 
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