SDS100/SDS200: What I'm about to ask about encryption... isn't what you are thinking.

[Facsimile]

First and foremost - I have no interest in decrypting encryption or complaining about it. I am only curious as to what encryption sounds like. Sure, I can listen to recordings on the internet but since I have a SDS100 I was wondering if I can hear it through the radio itself. For example, if I am doing "ID Searching," I figured if I turned the squelch to zero and enabled a talkgroup that was supposedly encrypted, I should hear buzzing, boops, beeps, etc. Does the 100/200 filter those out because I don't hear anything? I have only tried on a few talkgroups that claimed to be encrypted. If they are being used I should be hearing unintelligible noises, correct?

Thanks.

 

[RaleighGuy]

Uniden scanners, unlike the newer Whistlers, will not monitor the encrypted sound, as soon as the scanner detects it it moves on to another TG or scanning.

 

[Facsimile]

Uniden scanners, unlike the newer Whistlers, will not monitor the encrypted sound, as soon as the scanner detects it it moves on to another TG or scanning.

Understood. I did notice when it is ID Searching, it does temporarily stop on documented encrypted talkgroups for a millisecond but then moves on.

 

[RaleighGuy]

Understood. I did notice when it is ID Searching, it does temporarily stop on documented encrypted talkgroups for a millisecond but then moves on.

Until it recognizes the signal as encrypted.

 

[riveter]

http://www.w2sjw.com/sounds/DES%20Decoded.mp3

http://www.w2sjw.com/sounds/Phase-II_Encryption.mp3

A couple of examples from the wonderful ear familiarization site maintained at:

W2SJW - Radio Sounds

In essence, if your radio tries to decode it as un-encrypted audio, it will physically do it and come up with audio to play, it's just that the audio ends up being *that*, which is entirely useless.

 

[RaleighGuy]

Sure, I can listen to recordings on the internet but since I have a SDS100 I was wondering if I can hear it through the radio itself.

http://www.w2sjw.com/sounds/DES%20Decoded.mp3

http://www.w2sjw.com/sounds/Phase-II_Encryption.mp3

A couple of examples from the wonderful ear familiarization site maintained at:

W2SJW - Radio Sounds

In essence, if your radio tries to decode it as un-encrypted audio, it will physically do it and come up with audio to play, it's just that the audio ends up being *that*, which is entirely useless.

Thanks, but not what the OP was looking for, he asked if it could be heard through the SDS100, which it will not do.

 

[n5ims]

While it is possible to "encrypt" an analog signal (this is generally known as scrambling the signal, not encrypting it) this is now very rare in commercial use so I will not address it at this time. My response is very basic and general in nature but should answer your question. Please note that there may be some difference in the buzzing depending on what modulation method is used to translate the digital stream into RF, this won't allow you to tell what is being said, only what type of digital signal is being used to send the information.

Most signals are now digital in nature and sent as zeros and ones (in its most basic form). That buzzing you hear when your analog scanner receives a digital signal is what that digital signal sounds like. That buzzing is received by your digital radio that translates the buzzing back into the ones and zeros which is then translated into the audio you can listen to. The encryption process takes those zeros and ones and runs them through an encryption algorithm prior to transmitting it. In reverse (when you receive), it takes the received zeros and ones and runs them through a decryption algorithm prior to translating it back into audio you can listen to. The encryption process will not audibly alter that buzzing sound since either way it's just zeros and ones being transmitted.

 

[jtwalker]

Q: since I have a SDS100 I was wondering if I can hear it through the radio itself

A: no, you can’t

 

[Facsimile]

Thank you all for your responses!

 

[ofd8001]

Back in the days before scanners would "reject" encrypted talkgroups, you could "hear" a radio signal that is encrypted. What you heard or what it sounded like, depends on the type of encryption used. AES made a "hissing" or "rushing" sound. Motorola had their "own" protocol and could be best described as an obnoxious series of buzzing sounds.

 

[a29zuk]

On the older Uniden 396T you will hear a quick burst before it silences. I've used that in the past to lockout the encrypted talkgroups.

Jim

 

[Noseybody]

The police in Brockville ON are encrypted and I sometimes pick them up with close call and it sounds like a garbled voice.

 

[Ubbe]

Uniden scanners, unlike the newer Whistlers, will not monitor the encrypted sound, as soon as the scanner detects it it moves on to another TG or scanning.

Yes, it does, but if you are not scanning you can hear how a decoded signal sounds like when it is encrypted. There is a mode where you hear it in the scanner, if it where when you entered the frequency manually, or in discovery or analyze mode.

/Ubbe

 

[RaleighGuy]

Yes, it does, but if you are not scanning you can hear how a decoded signal sounds like when it is encrypted. There is a mode where you hear it in the scanner, if it where when you entered the frequency manually, or in discovery or analyze mode.

/Ubbe

Thank you, I was under the impression you could not hear it on the Uniden scanners.

 

[W2IRT]

Something curious is happening here locally, however. One of our local EMS units is transmitting some kind of encrypted/scrambled audio on the town's unencrypted police dispatch frequency. This is on a talkgroup on a P25 Phase-II statewide system. The BLS unit is encrypted but the dispatcher is in the clear. I can hear the entire length of the encrypted transmission, and the PD dispatcher responds to them in the clear.

 

[Facsimile]

Yes, it does, but if you are not scanning you can hear how a decoded signal sounds like when it is encrypted. There is a mode where you hear it in the scanner, if it where when you entered the frequency manually, or in discovery or analyze mode.

I tried manually entering the control frequency for an encrypted TG. I will say I heard a "blip" or a garbled noise only at the very beginning of the transmission and only sometimes. When it did happen it was only a millisecond in length before it appears to mute. I will try it in discovery and analyze mode and see if I hear anything else.

Is ID Search the same as discovery? If so I don't hear any of the encryption sounds.

And in analyze, doesn't that just look at the site and have no audio normally?

 

[n1chu]

That “encryption ignore” Uniden has managed to include in its newer scanners is an FCC mandate. Apparently, Whistler wasn’t able to incorporate it into their “design” and was granted something like a waiver? I’m guessing here so don’t quote me. Whistler must have shown a “best effort” but could not incorporate it with their current models, so the FCC appreciated their due diligence and exempted them… or, mandated the “ignore” on future models?

The way the law was written forbade scanner manufacturers from creating a scanner that even listened to encrypted signals. Instead, they were to continue scanning once encryption was identified. But I have heard encryption (on very few occasions) on my SDS200, which I deemed either an unidentified encryption technique (most all common forms of encryption are identified as encryption on the Uniden’s but not all) or just a glitch.

Thank you, I was under the impression you could not hear it on the Uniden scanners.

Thank you, I was under the impression you could not hear it on the Uniden scanners.

 

[Facsimile]

That “encryption ignore” Uniden has managed to include in its newer scanners is an FCC mandate. Apparently, Whistler wasn’t able to incorporate it into their “design” and was granted something like a waiver? I’m guessing here so don’t quote me. Whistler must have shown a “best effort” but could not incorporate it with their current models, so the FCC appreciated their due diligence and exempted them… or, mandated the “ignore” on future models?

That seems like a lot of extra unnecessary work for a government body. I'm surprised they were able to accomplish it.

 

[n1chu]

And if all that was not enough, tack on the further FCC mandate that not only should the scanner ignore and continue on scanning, if by some stroke of fate your scanner stopped and stayed on an encrypted signal, you were not supposed to listen to it! If you did it could mean you are in violation of the FCC Communications Act of 1935 as amended. And yes, I know it’s hardly an enforceable rule (and not worth debating so I won’t). Who’s going to know? Unless you freely admit to deliberately and manually tuning your scanner to listen to encryption that dog wont hunt. But isn’t that exactly what some are doing… freely admitting to listen deliberately to encrypted transmissions? Read the amended Act for yourself. Unless the FCC has amended it again and removed the forbidden listening to an encrypted signal, I wouldn’t be freely admitting to listening to encryption in an open forum such as this. No sense poking the bear.

 

[GTR8000]

That “encryption ignore” Uniden has managed to include in its newer scanners is an FCC mandate.

This nonsense again? You've posted about this supposed "FCC mandate" for years, and have never once backed it up by citing a specific source, despite being told that you're flat out wrong. The amount of false and ill-informed posts you make in these forums is astonishing.

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