What is the best UHF Antenna at 461 mhz?

[Kingcoal354]

I have a uhf mobile two way radio (Vertex 4200). I also have a motorola cm300. Looking for a good antenna to mount to help me reach he repeaters. Thanks.

1-What is the best UHF Antenna at 461 mhz for this unit?

 

[mrweather]

Need more information.

Is your area hilly or flat? Are you rural, urban or suburban? Where is the repeater located? How high is the repeater antenna? What kind of vehicle are these radios in? Do you have overhead height issues?

 

[Alliance01TX]

461. MHz Antenna

A few items to ponder....

While awaiting your response to the prior post and excellent questions....

If you are in a vehicle then most likely you would run a 1/4 wave antenna at the roof-top or highest reasonable area of the vehicle.

The frequency of 461.000 MHz represents approximately an antenna length of 6.40" at the 1/4 wave, which most public service folks run in the UHF environments / cities.

If this is is the only UHF frequency you will ever use, I would recommend getting a top-notch antenna 'cut' to exactly the length required for maximum reception, along with top quality coax/connectors and solid grounding scheme...Motorola is one example of antenna, although a bit pricey.

If this is a base-station set up, then the prior post questions have additional impacts, as does the future use of other VHF/UHF frequencies in the future. The full wave length at the 461.000 MHz freq is 25.61" if you are considering a mast or tower installation. Again, other items must be solid, such as station grounding, coax and lighting / static protection.

You can have a great Radio, but if you buy cheapo-deluxe antenna's and marginal coax quality (including connectors) with minimal grounding, you will likely getting the lowest results of those choose in a two-way radio set up...my opinion.

Depending on many factors (including if Simplex used or not) many folks (not all) would opt for a wider bandwidth antenna to allow operations in different freq ranges/bands.

Hope this helps and best of luck!

 

[JnglMassiv]

Further questions: What have you tried already, how does it perform and what do you expect by upgrading? As mentioned in the other posts, will this be a vehicle install or are you mounting to a fixed structure. If the latter, you may consider a directional antenna like a yagi. For a mobile application, you're probably looking at a quarter or full wave whip. Another thing: What the TX freq? You may run into problems if the offset is huge (like 30MHz).

The OP has an advantage with the known frequency. The antenna can be neatly tuned to that channel. Often when people ask about antenna upgrades, they express a desire to see big improvements on 25-512 / 758-824 / 850-869 / 894-960 (minus cellular) / 1240-1300 MHz with a $25 ebay mystery whip.

 

[Kingcoal354]

1- 1 car with a cm300 in it.
2- 1 car with a vertex 4200 in it
3- 1 home base unit
4- area is hilly and rural area
5- repeater is located a good way off on a hill, would like to put one at my location, but I think it is too low.
6- do a need a non ground atenna for the vehicles
7- I don't care about cost, I want a good setup to communicate with my people.

Thanks for the help

 

[Kingcoal354]

Is this a good one for the home.

Elk 2m 440 Dual Band Antenna

Features:

2M Gain 6.6 dbd (8.7 dBi)
440 Gain 7 dBd (9 dBi)
20 +dB Front to Back Ratio
24 Inch Boom Length
1:1 SWR 144-148 Mhz, 430-450 Mhz
200W Max Power 2M, 100W 440
Weighs 1.5 lbs.
Corrosion resistant aluminum alloy boom
Anodized aluminum elements
Stainless steel hardware
Designed for long life
Super fast and easy assembly/disassembly (three minutes).
Color-coded elements screw onto studs on the color-coded boom- just match the colors!
Two bands with one coax fitting. Use your dual band HT for satellite contacts.
No duplexer required, no duplexer loss, no duplexer power limit, no duplexer cost!
Use all portions of the band without retuning.
Change polarity easily, just twist the mounting assembly to change from vertical to horizontal polarity.
Designed with the latest synthesis software to achieve highest gain and highest front to back ratio for its size.
Now with "soft touch" handle for satellite and foxhunting applications

 

[kd8jhc]

1:1 SWR 144-148 Mhz, 430-450 Mhz

It would probably work, but not well. This is a dual-band antenna designed for two amateur bands that you're not operating in.

By the way, what repeaters are you trying to reach on 461? (i.e. who operates them?)

Jeff
kd8jhc

 

[Kingcoal354]

privately operated, not a public repater. Any suggestions to what antenna's you would use.

King Coal

 

[kd8jhc]

Is this an FCC-licensed repeater?

 

[kd8jhc]

Also, please note this specific forum is for antennas related to monitoring, not transmitting.

 

[Kingcoal354]

yes it is an fcc licensed repeater.

 

[byndhlptom]

461 Antenna

I'd suggest the following

Install a NMO mount as high on both vehicles as you can. The center of the roof is usually the best, but center of trunk @ UHF is also pretty good.

Try the 1/4 wave antennas first ( they are very cost effective and are pretty indestructable). If you find that you have some poor coverage areas, upgrade to a 5db antenna on one of the vehicles to see if that helps. If the results are good, upgrade the second car.

I hesitate to recommend the 5db antennas as the first choice because they tend to flatten the radiation pattern pretty good (that's how they get the gain). In hilly environments, you can end up with all that gain missing the repeater, thus poorer than 1/4 wave performance.

The NMO base gives you the option of using just about any antenna style made. Not knowing what the coverage profile of the repeater your using is limits how acceptable the advice you may receive will be......

good luck.

tom

 

[kd8jhc]

Really? Because in another RadioReference forum, you posted this:

"Let me simplify the question. If you were new to ham radio and wanted a good setup for your home that covered UHF frequencies from 450-470 mhz. What is a good begginner system and antenna. Also, would you need an amplifier. Thanks."

Your statements lead me to believe otherwise. 450-470 MHz is NOT within an amateur radio band. Furthermore, the Amateur Radio Service is not for use in "trucks" and "the office"...where you said you were going to use them. Having said that...

If you are licensed on a 461 MHz industrial/business frequency for use with a repeater, you know that the repeater location must be approved and on file with the FCC, and that you can't just "throw up" a repeater in this frequency pool wherever you like.

Also, in this case, whomever you purchased your radios from probably helped you make sure you were operating on the proper frequencies and within the scope of your license.

If you can supply your FCC call sign for the industrial/business band, we can take a look at your authorized repeater location, its permitted radius and power (ERP) limit, and the terrain between your repeater and mobile units to come up with an antenna system.

 

[Kingcoal354]

Just to simply this for you, it is two different questions.
#1 I want a setup for me and my family. two cars and a radio for home, I have had my interest sparked in the hobby since I have dealt with it at work. We have no cell phone service where we live and I would like to talk to my wife on the way home in case something bad were to happen to her. So, one question is aimed from a home hobbiest point of view.

#2 Unfortunately I work for a living and my work requires direct supervision of 5 million dollars worth of equipment, which is dispatched throughout the day to different locations. In order to improve the effeciency of the fleet, I have to improve my communication. We are working off a repeater that is not servicing us well. I am trying to get a deal worked out with the communication company to lease of the 911 tower and buy a repeater that they will service, which would work better in our area. The deal is almost done.

#3 Here is the call sign for the repeater we currently work from WPRH239

Again, I have two different questoins because one is form the point of view of a working person and the other is from the point of view of a home hobbiest. So please don't question my ethics, because that offends me and I find it rude. I am not trying to use Amateur Radio Service for business purposes. I am not doing anything illegal nor have any intention of doing anything illegal. I am just trying to figure out what the best setup is for me at home another for me at work.

 

[prcguy]

When did you change this forum to monitor antennas only? I like to discuss transmitting antennas and my life would not be worth living without this "Antennas and Coax Forum".

Who is "we" that's gonna take a look into someones commercial FCC license info? A squad of Hamsters?

And who gives you the authority to request FCC information to determine someones permitted area of operation or power limits?

Do you have radio terrain/propagation software? Is this a free service you offer?
prcguy

Also, please note this specific forum is for antennas related to monitoring, not transmitting.

If you can supply your FCC call sign for the industrial/business band, we can take a look at your authorized repeater location, its permitted radius and power (ERP) limit, and the terrain between your repeater and mobile units to come up with an antenna system.

 

[kd8jhc]

I didn't change the forum, just noticed that it said it was for monitoring activities.

Anyone can "look into" someone's FCC license info. It's not exactly exclusive information...It's a matter of public record.
FCC Universal Licensing System (ULS): ULS Home

There are a number of free radio terrain/propagation software programs on the net.

 

[kd8jhc]

Kingcoal - thanks, I am going to take a look and PM you later.

 

[JnglMassiv]

Also, please note this specific forum is for antennas related to monitoring, not transmitting.

If you are able to take a brief break from patrolling the spectrum, I wonder if you could discuss the differences between passive tx and rx antennas for this band. Do NOT reply if this response interferes with your continued role in clarifying questions that weren't asked or kilocycle cop duties.

 

[kd8jhc]

Nice. Thanks.