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What is the best way to get into the backbone of system infrastructure and programming?

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Mboy00

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Hi all!

This may not be the right place to post this, but I feel like this is the best place compared to other options.

I am starting to get experienced when it comes to analog programming & beginning to dig into the infrastructure, and as a end goal want to end up as a system administrator. Does anyone have any recommendations when it comes to education, degrees, or anything else relevant to better set myself up for this goal?
 

KE4ZNR

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Hi all!

This may not be the right place to post this, but I feel like this is the best place compared to other options.

I am starting to get experienced when it comes to analog programming & beginning to dig into the infrastructure, and as a end goal want to end up as a system administrator. Does anyone have any recommendations when it comes to education, degrees, or anything else relevant to better set myself up for this goal?
Networking and I.T.
Get as many Networking certifications, I.T. certifications, and degrees as you can.
Sure having a ham ticket & GROL might help a little BUT radio has taken a backseat to the networking & I.T. side of the business.
As someone who has worked in the industry for around 13 years I see routers, switches and gateways more than anything else these days.
Everything is streams of 1s & 0s these days and you need to know how to point them in the right directions.
 

xmo

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There aren't a lot of system administrator positions and most are likely filled by promotion of a qualified internal candidate.

You didn't say if your interest is in a commercial entity, a utility, or a public safety / government agency. Regardless, first, identify any suitable systems in your area or in areas you are prepared to move to.

Contact the HR departments at these organizations. Even if they have no openings, you can still ask for position descriptions with qualification requirements. You should also go to radio club meetings in your area. Someone will 'know someone". Advice from a local will be invaluable.

Get yourself prepared for an entry level position, watch for an opening, start somewhere and move up by a strong work ethic and demonstrated performance.

Here is a list of training Motorola offered:

ASTRO® 25 IV&D System Overview
ASTRO® 25 Systems Applied Networking
ASTRO® 25 IV&D M CORE Workshop
ASTRO® 25 IV&D Radio System Administrator Workshop
ASTRO® 25 IV&D IP Based Digital Simulcast Workshop
ASTRO® 25 IV&D GTR 8000 Repeater Site Workshop
MCC 7000 Series Dispatch Consoles Workshop
 

mmckenna

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There aren't a lot of system administrator positions and most are likely filled by promotion of a qualified internal candidate.

I agree. A system administrator position is going to be fairly high up, not an entry level sort of thing. Usually filled by promoting from within or hiring someone from a similar position.

If you want to aim for that job, then you'll need to start near the bottom and work your way up.

There's a big difference between programming analog systems and trunking systems. It requires some different thinking, although it sounds like you have a good start.

I'd follow the advice above and start looking for shops or agencies that are hiring installers. That's where most get their start. You would need to really have a firm grasp on the fundamentals before they'd let you start programming radios, and before letting you loose on a trunked system.

I've been doing the system admin thing for about 25 years now. It's changed a lot since the early days of analog trunking systems. It's all IP now, and having a really strong networking background is a requirement. If you have a community college near you, start taking networking courses. You'll absolutely need to know that stuff.

It's likely that as a newcomer, you'll get your start in the install bay, so be ready for that. One of the local county run shops hires a lot of guys out of car dealership shops since understanding vehicles and electrical systems is important. A lot of the jobs I see posted are for entry level or install type jobs. There are occasionally higher positions, but they usually have a lot of requirements regarding training and experience.

Once in, you'll probably get opportunities to move up and work in the field. Radio programming takes a while as their is some real trust involved. If you want to work for a public safety agency, it's likely that you'll eventually need background checks, as they'll want to know that the guy that has the encryption keys and full access to the system is trustworthy. My employer eventually ran me through the background checks that they use when hiring 911 dispatchers, since I was touching a lot of the same equipment. Make sure your background is squeaky clean and your financial affairs are in order if you are aiming at a public safety job.

Commercial radio shops are a different story, but there's a lot of them getting shut down, so competition for the available positions is really high. Make sure you have something that makes you stand out.

Some skills to start working on:
IP networking/routing
Electrical/mechanical skills
Fabrication skills
Troubleshooting skills.
Tower climbing certification is often required, either before or after hiring.

These guys would be a great place to start:
Talk to @speedway_navigator he's an instructor for them.

Remember, you need to make yourself stand out from the crowd.


Funny thing about my job, though. While doing the system admin thing is in the "real" job description, there's about a million other things that are not. Dealing with electrical/back up power, DC power systems, HVAC issues, site maintenance issues, building issues, and a ton of other things that you'd never imagine, sometimes that's what takes up most of my day.
 

xmo

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"While doing the system admin thing is in the "real" job description, there's about a million other things that are not"

Amen
 

xmo

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About those million other things. A lot of them involve working with a wide variety of people on a first name basis - police and fire chiefs, public works directors, fire marshals, neighboring system administrators, fiscal people, etc.

It can take years to work yourself into that kind of trusted position.
 

mmckenna

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"While doing the system admin thing is in the "real" job description, there's about a million other things that are not"

Amen

Some of the tools/parts in my work truck confuse the hell out of my director. "Why do you have an axe and a shovel in your truck?". "Why are you requisitioning bolt cutters?"

This time of year, a large part of my job is dealing with HVAC problems. Probably been 2-3 weeks since I actually was programming a radio.
 

mmckenna

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About those million other things. A lot of them involve working with a wide variety of people on a first name basis - police and fire chiefs, public works directors, fire marshals, neighboring system administrators, fiscal people, etc.

It can take years to work yourself into that kind of trusted position.

Truth.

I have to work with a lot of different agencies, so knowing the various fire and police chiefs as well as the people at the PSAP's, radio shops, etc. all become important. It takes a long time to build up those networks. Not an entry level job, that's for sure. It's a life long career choice that is very rewarding, but takes years to build up trust. I love my job, but if I knew what it was going to take to get where I am now, I might have been discouraged.

Cool thing is that they pay me to do this stuff. Secretly I'd probably do the job for free...
 

a417

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"While doing the system admin thing is in the "real" job description, there's about a million other things that are not"

Amen
That bathroom near the radio closet needs cleaning, guess who will get reminded about cleaning it...
 

mmckenna

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or anything else relevant to better set myself up for this goal?

Well, as you can see from above, you need a lot of experience in things that you'd think wouldn't matter.

It's a funny job because it's often out on the edges, both literally and figuratively. It's sort of a rare position, so it tends to be something you kind of fall into.

I've done quite a bit of hiring (My team is not only responsible for radio, but also telephone, 911, and a bunch of other stuff), so I have to really look closely at new hires. It's easy to go through the resumes and look for keywords, especially when it comes to the network requirements, training, radio stuff. It's harder to read between the lines and know if a person I hire is going to be able to handle all the really weird stuff that gets tossed their way. Having someone that just has the certifications isn't enough. It's gotta be someone that can see that the job extends beyond making the radio or phone work, all the way out to training end users, solving really weird problems, and having a broad set of skills.

Absolutely not a 9-5 M-F job. You are often on call 24x7, even on vacation. "No" isn't a word you get to use frequently. If it's a big enough shop, you share the rotation. If it's a small shop, sometimes it's just you.
You might think that vendor support will solve all the challenges, however there's a long list of vendors and each one is going to blame the other guy, since most of the systems are so interconnected. You have to know the entire system from end to end, sometimes better than the vendor does. Since each system is going to be different, it really does require a huge amount of knowledge and understanding.

Backhaul between radio sites is a big thing. It might be fiber, might be point to point wireless, might be a carrier service, it's all IP, and you've got to know how it all goes together. You need to have your network skills pretty well in place. When you are doing public safety systems, you have kind of a lot of pressure on you to make sure things keep working. Officers will quickly let you know if they don't think the radio service is up to the requirements. It can be really stressful.

But, it's also a fun job. You get to go a lot of interesting places and do a lot of neat stuff. I've got radio sites that require 4X4 to get to. I've got one site that is only accessible by helicopter or hike in. I don't get the helicopter, I get the 40 pounds of tools/test gear, a 2000 foot elevation gain and a 4 mile walk each way. But the view is spectacular, and there's no one breathing down my neck. I get to occasionally camp at tower sites since they are so far out and hard to get to. I kind of get the 'all access pass' as I need to be a lot of places to work on the equipment. I meet a lot of really interesting people.

The amount of time I spend sitting in my office actually logged into the system is pretty slim.

But, as others will tell you, it can be a very rewarding job. Get the right place, and it can pay well and have great benefits. I've been at my current employer for 26 years now, and will probably retire in another 7-10 years. I have no desire to look elsewhere for work, as I love what I do so much. There's a lot of pressure and stress from the responsibility, but when everything is working right, it's a great job.
 

Mboy00

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Thank you all for your suggestions. I do also agree that I should start on the bottom and go up from there, and that's my plan. The main thing that inspires me to do this is the fact that radio shops charge 20$ for 16 analog frequencies on a zone and that there's a lot of other sketchy things going on and I want myself and my peers to know that we're not getting the sketch special when we're operating on critical scenes. Thank you all for your input again.
 

N4DES

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After spending over 35 years in Public Safety Radio and recently retired (sorry my position has already been filled) do not expect to walk in the door as a System Manager/Administrator. I can attest that a lot of what mmckenna provided is highly accurate, so I won't repeat them, as I have found myself in a number of those situations as I worked up the ladder and while in the Admin position.

You should have a well rounded background to land that Admin position, not only in communications technology, but also an understanding of field operations. As an example of what I did, within my first year as a radio tech for my local Sheriff's Office in the late 80's I enrolled in the auxiliary police academy at night and after I graduated put on the same uniform as the majority of the customers I supported as a technician, and by the time I left I had a true understanding of numerous operations in my local Sheriff's Office as I had an opportunity to participate in almost all of them except for riding a horse in the mounted unit and a motorcycle :LOL:. I was a tech by day and did a shift or two on the weeks that I wasn't on call for almost a decade and even spent time in the PSAP along side our 911 dispatchers. Fast forward 10 years later I was hired by the County to roll out our first county-wide mixed-mode simulcast/trunked system in 800 MHz, was awarded the position of System Manager, and stayed there until I retired leaving the County with a very robust 700/800 MHz P25 system, two interconnected PTP microwave networks, around 10 PSAP's, and over 15K full-time users from almost 70 agencies.

In addition to some manufacturer specific training, having a decent quantity of NIMS/ICS training goes along way and you can do this on your own. I worked very closely with my Emergency Management Division as I authored most of the communication sections of the County's EM plans, participated in all of their large exercises and table-tops that had a communications component, and when we did have an activation I was right there in the EOC 24/7 supporting the end users, monitoring the health of the system in real-time, and coordination of our recovery efforts when we did get damage from a hurricane.

In the end, knowing how to walk the walk, and talk the talk can help in the interview process because a good chance that some of the interview panel will be uniformed public safety personnel.
 

N4DES

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But, as others will tell you, it can be a very rewarding job. Get the right place, and it can pay well and have great benefits. I've been at my current employer for 26 years now, and will probably retire in another 7-10 years. I have no desire to look elsewhere for work, as I love what I do so much. There's a lot of pressure and stress from the responsibility, but when everything is working right, it's a great job.
Amen to that!
 

mmckenna

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I've been reading the East Palestine train derailment AARs. The fire chief had just started his vacation, he was driving near I-80 and 81 when he got the call. He turned around and got on scene about 0200 after the crash about 2100.

I drove from the West Coast all the way out to San Antonio TX for APCO a few years back. I was just about into San Antonio when my phone rang. It was our PSAP and they had an issue. I was able to solve it over the phone with the help of one of my techs on site.

Just coming off 2 weeks of vacation right now, and so far the phone hasn't rung (yet). I do have a crap load of e-mail and a stack of about 15 radios waiting for me when I get back in the office.
 
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