What is the latest on citizens or media filing to enable monitoring local encrypted channels?

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Nasby

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Sadly, nothing can be done. There may be small instances where a department unencrypts their channel but it’s usually due to mutual aid concerns etc and not because the listening public complained.

Even though there’s other non police stuff to hear, most people just sell their scanners and exit the hobby.
 

AJAT

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What has everyone seen regarding citizens or media filing to enable them to listen to an encrypted channel?
I have seen citizens complain, cry, say their rights are being violated, say it is unconstitutional, write their representatives, and demand the government reimburse them for their scanners. Then the police respond by keeping their encryption.
 

WX4JCW

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Understanding the reason for why they encrypted would help you understand this.
Does anyone really understand or accept the reasons given, I know it doesnt matter, these agancies will cave to having a DEI officer but god forbid the public listens in
 

WX4JCW

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It's well documented that the FBI/DOJ require protection of CJI/PII at all times and in all forms.



People that are unable to comprehend the reasons usually refuse to accept them.
oh i comprehend completely
 

WX4JCW

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Well, that's good. Most on this site appear to be unable or unwilling to understand.
True but you do have to understand this is a hobbyist site :p, anyways its not going to be solved here, and normal citizens who are upset should be a loud voice on this topic,they should never stop, it will either work or it wont, being a thorn in the side is sometimes a good thing
 

majoco

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Broadcasting all the police messages on the net to all and sundry didn't help the cause either. Just listening in many countries is no problem and the law of "secrecy of correspondence" applies and if you do tell anybody what you heard there are severe punishments.
 

mmckenna

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True but you do have to understand this is a hobbyist site :p, anyways its not going to be solved here, and normal citizens who are upset should be a loud voice on this topic,they should never stop, it will either work or it wont, being a thorn in the side is sometimes a good thing

This is a hobbyist oriented site and there are several of us here that started as hobbyists and now work in the industry. Many of us have tried to help out hobbyists understand the reason behind encryption. Understanding it is important to learning how to have productive discussions with agencies.
 

WX4JCW

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This is a hobbyist oriented site and there are several of us here that started as hobbyists and now work in the industry. Many of us have tried to help out hobbyists understand the reason behind encryption. Understanding it is important to learning how to have productive discussions with agencies.
im not trying to be a jerk, but how is that productive discussion going, from what i see not going very far, I was working in the industry before I became a hobbyist, I know how the politics go, the upper brass makes a decision and its set in stone, not your fault, when my county decided to throw the switch the Chief (Now a US Representative) had absolutely zero clue what she was talking about, during that meeting she said "the train had left the station and nothing was going to stop it" Her Husband was the Sheriff and low and behold they both pop the switch at once.
 

merlin

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Look at the expense agencies and military spent on encryption.
Crybaby all you want, but will take a lot more money and political clout just to be heard.
Simply put, it will never happen.
Show me just one scanner or radio manufacturer that guarantees encrypted reception.
NO KEYS = NO DECRYPTION.
I doubt anywhere the topic is even open for discussion.
 

MTS2000des

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All of this discussion is moot once AT&T/FirstNet has all of us paying to be on their network. LTE/5G/6G is natively encrypted end to end, so the only option will be convincing AHJs to put up publicly available streams of radio traffic, most likely filtered (in other words, no TAC channels. CID, etc) and this is where the effort should be put into lobbying, etc.

Keep in mind, it is going to take a real solution that isn't cost prohibitive, and that is where an entity like Broadcastify could step up and offer to do it for free/low cost (obviously supported by underwriters, subscriptions and yes, pesky ads) but it takes the headache off of the AHJ and appeases the public concern over transparency. Of course it won't be the same experience today as being able to listen to "free to air" public safety, but the quality of it will be driven by those who demand it. Just a thought from a guy on the inside who is watching the encroachment of commercial LTE enter our space. If you think it isn't coming, Miami-Dade and NYC just dropped hundreds of millions collectively to migrate to converged devices. It will be here faster than many (including myself) think.
 

xmo

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Don't forget that many agencies broadcast delayed feeds of primary dispatch talkgroups, thereby completely negating the transparency issue.
 

Rq17954z

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Don't see anything wrong with encryption to protect law enforcement from doing their job safely. But they should make everything available at a later date to any member of the public via a online database. Regardless of what law enforcement agency. Otherwise you can really have a third world country right here!
 

mmckenna

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im not trying to be a jerk, but how is that productive discussion going, from what i see not going very far,

Right. In my experience, a lot of what I see is not productive discussion. There is also a lack of willingness to understand the reason that encryption is being used. There are a lot of poorly written bills that get put up for vote that don't take these realities into account.

A while back, I posted on one of these discussions a simple question:
"Please share your full legal name, eye color, hair color, height, weight, address, date of birth, drivers license number, vehicle make/model/color/year/VIN/license/registration, wether you own fire arms, your full criminal history, and any other details"

Not one person answered that, because everyone wants privacy. There is a real disconnect with people demanding their own privacy, but wanting full unrestricted access to someone else's private information when it comes to entertainment.


I was working in the industry before I became a hobbyist, I know how the politics go, the upper brass makes a decision and its set in stone, not your fault, when my county decided to throw the switch the Chief (Now a US Representative) had absolutely zero clue what she was talking about, during that meeting she said "the train had left the station and nothing was going to stop it" Her Husband was the Sheriff and low and behold they both pop the switch at once.

Trying to make it all a political thing isn't going to accomplish anything. That hasn't worked, and it's not going to suddenly start working.

Hobbyists don't have an easy argument against the FBI/DOJ requirement for protecting CJI/PII, so the discussion tends to devolve into what we often see on this site.
 
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