im not trying to be a jerk, but how is that productive discussion going, from what i see not going very far,
Right. In my experience, a lot of what I see is not productive discussion. There is also a lack of willingness to understand the reason that encryption is being used. There are a lot of poorly written bills that get put up for vote that don't take these realities into account.
A while back, I posted on one of these discussions a simple question:
"Please share your full legal name, eye color, hair color, height, weight, address, date of birth, drivers license number, vehicle make/model/color/year/VIN/license/registration, wether you own fire arms, your full criminal history, and any other details"
Not one person answered that, because everyone wants privacy. There is a real disconnect with people demanding their own privacy, but wanting full unrestricted access to someone else's private information when it comes to entertainment.
I was working in the industry before I became a hobbyist, I know how the politics go, the upper brass makes a decision and its set in stone, not your fault, when my county decided to throw the switch the Chief (Now a US Representative) had absolutely zero clue what she was talking about, during that meeting she said "the train had left the station and nothing was going to stop it" Her Husband was the Sheriff and low and behold they both pop the switch at once.
Trying to make it all a political thing isn't going to accomplish anything. That hasn't worked, and it's not going to suddenly start working.
Hobbyists don't have an easy argument against the FBI/DOJ requirement for protecting CJI/PII, so the discussion tends to devolve into what we often see on this site.