OK guys, as a newbie here, I have a question about analyzers vs tuners. My understanding is, (and correct me if I'm wrong), a tuner can make a bad antenna (dipole) look good. Basically "tricking" the radio into thinking the antenna is OK. Whereas an analyzer will actually help you make a good antenna. A tuner stays connected to the antenna system while in use-the analyzer does not. So is it to my advantage to buy one over the other?
What should I buy-analyzer or tuner?
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If your radio has an swr meter you can use that to test your antennas so i would vote for a tuner...
K7MEM
Member
Using words like "tricking" and "bad antenna look good" leads to bad assumptions.
A tuner is just a impedance matching device. It connects between the transmitter and the feed line, and allows the transmitter to see the impedance it was designed for. Even a very good antenna may not exhibit the impedance that transmitter is looking for. And a very bad antenna could have, what appears to be, a good impedance.
As for the tuner vs analyzer question.. Most tuners come with SWR bridges built in. It would be better if you learned how to use the tuner/SWR bridge combination to make the match to your antenna better. If you purchase a analyzer, which is not cheap, you will make one antenna, tune it up and them put the analyzer on the shelf. It has uses, other than analyzing antennas, but unless you have a application that requires it, it will just sit on the shelf.
For a dipole, as you indicated, a SWR bridge tell you everything you need to know about adjusting your antenna for the best operational setup. I do have a antenna analyzer (old MFJ unit). While it works nice, I have gone back to just using a SWR bridge and a tuner to let me know what to do.
Martin - K7MEM
I would definitely recommend the tuner first.
An analyzer would be useful if you plan to make antenna construction and experimentation a regular part of your amateur radio experience. Otherwise, they're pretty pricey for something that may sit on the shelf quite a bit, so if you need one from time to time, find a kind friend to borrow from.
If you plan to use a wire dipole or other similar antenna on multiple bands (very common for first-timers), a tuner is pretty much necessary. If you can, feed said antenna with ladder line or open wire line, as the losses are more manageable than with coax. A tuner could also help bail you out of any number of situations, including ice on the antenna.
Token
Member
First, not sure why you said “a bad antenna (dipole) look good”. Nothing wrong with a dipole antenna, and they can look quite good, SWR wise, without a tuner.
Different tools for different tasks. One does not replace the other.
Yes, an analyzer will help you adjust the antenna to make an antenna “right”, or you can do the same thing with the meters on the tuner. The analyzer typically presents the data in a prettier, maybe easier to understand, fashion.
The tuner corrects a poorly tuned antenna, or at least corrects the response your transmitter sees.
So if I have an antenna, let’s say a half wave dipole, I can use an analyzer to adjust it for best SWR / interaction with my transmitter for a given frequency or frequency set / bandwidth. As long as I stay on that frequency, or within a certain bandwidth around that frequency, the SWR will be good, and my transmitter happy. But outside that limited bandwidth the SWR will be excessive and I would want a tuner to clean up operation.
A real world example here. You can put up a half wave antenna on 160 meters. You can use an analyzer to optimize it for 1925 kHz. At and around 1925 kHz no tuner is needed, the SWR is fine, and the transmitter happy. Depending on antenna design and build the 2:1 SWR might be as little as 100 kHz (this is just an example, specific antennas can be wider or narrower than that), meaning you can use that antenna from 1875 to 1975 kHz without a tuner. But the 160 meter ham band is 1800 to 2000 kHz in the US. To use the full band with that antenna you would want an antenna tuner.
An analyzer you use to set up an antenna, a tuner you use in day-to-day operations.
Can you operate without a tuner? Yes. Is it easier to operate with a tuner? Yes.
T!
Ok thanks guys, by bad antenna, I was refering to a dipole that may need shortening-not meaning the physical appearance of it. 
I understand some radios have built in auto-tuners. Are those reliable, or is it better to have an external tuner like the MJF-949-E?
I understand some radios have built in auto-tuners. Are those reliable, or is it better to have an external tuner like the MJF-949-E?
Ok thanks guys, by bad antenna, I was refering to a dipole that may need shortening-not meaning the physical appearance of it.
I understand some radios have built in auto-tuners. Are those reliable, or is it better to have an external tuner like the MJF-949-E?
I've never had a problem with the auto tuner in my Icom 746Pro. So far it's been able to match almost anything that got thrown at it; if the internal auto tuner wasn't happy, an outboard manual tuner wasn't happy either.
Ditto for the outboard Z-817 auto tuner I use with my Yaesu FT-817.
That being said, it's always handy to have a manual tuner lying around just in case; a simple one can often be had pretty inexpensively, but if you buy one at a hamfest flea market, open it up first to make sure there are no signs of arcing or burning on the capacitors or inductor(s). Super high voltages caused by an antenna that's really out of whack can cause some really unpleasant arcing and burning inside the tuner.
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K7MEM
Member
Actually, I didn't say that at all.
Ok thanks guys, by bad antenna, I was refering to a dipole that may need shortening-not meaning the physical appearance of it.
I understand some radios have built in auto-tuners. Are those reliable, or is it better to have an external tuner like the MJF-949-E?
Yes, we understood what you meant when you are referring to a dipole. But needing shortening doesn't make it bad. It only makes the feed impedance different than what you would like. A dipole that is too long resonates at a lower frequency than you might require, but it is still quite usable as an antenna. A antenna does not have to be resonant to radiate efficiently. Even if you have a 2:1 SWR, the antenna will radiate all of the power that you send to it, minus the resistive losses in the coax. Those losses included the losses due to SWR, but those are usually very small. That is why a good coax is necessary. Low grade coax will have higher losses and can hide your actual SWR.
I have a MFJ-941D. It is a manual tuner that can handle 300 Watts maximum. It's a good tuner that lets me move within a band, and between bands, with just a little adjustment. I have a combination trap/fan dipole for 10, 15, 20, 40, and 80 Meters, plus a 40/20 meter end-fed dipole that I am experimenting with. The combination trap/fan dipole is adjusted to be close to the CW portion of each band, and the tuner does the rest. I just write down the tuner settings for each band/antenna. Then switching between bands is simple. The end-fed dipole antenna is quite far off resonance on 20 and 40 meters. But being experimental, it is not currently an issue.
You don't have to invest a lot of money, if you are a little bit handy? I bought the MFJ-941D at a ham fest for $15. The original owner blew out the SWR bridge and didn't want to fix it himself. So for $2 worth of diodes, a trimmer cap, and some soldering iron time, I had a nice tuner. I would have preferred one with a cross needle SWR meter, but you "takes what you gets".
Martin - K7MEM
As noted from other replies, you eventually will want both. I know I do... but that's only because I have a tuner and I've been borrowing analyzers from other members in our club. Something an analyzer is going to tell you that will be tough to determine with just a tuner and SWR meter: What exactly is the resonant frequency of the antenna, and how broad is it? Knowing that will help you answer the next question: Do I shorten or lengthen the antenna (or adjust the loading coil / matching) to get it to the resonance and bandwidth that I want? It's nice to know those key elements before you make a change that may be permanent (like cutting something shorter). Last year during Field Day we had one of our stations using a commercially-made OCFD antenna that simply would not load up properly with a tuner. We put an analyzer on it and found its resonant points were all outside of the ham bands. After Field Day, the member contacted the manufacturer about it... and discovered the antenna was built for military use and mislabeled as an amateur antenna.
Tuners are relatively inexpensive. An entry level spectrum analyzer with tracking generator is just shy of $1500. I know because I just bought one!
A spectrum analyzer with tracking generator is very nice but you also need a good return bridge to use it for antenna testing. Eagle is a good brand for entry level wide band return loss bridges.
I have an HP/Agilent 8594E spectrum analyzer with tracking generator that I use for antenna testing and also antenna gain measurements. It blew up many months ago and my life has been on hold until last week where I finally got it repaired and back on line. Once you get used to certain things you just can't live without them.
If you intend on experimenting with antennas I highly recommend an antenna analyzer but not the POS MFJ models, they have a history of problems. The Comet CAA-500 cost a little more than some but it is very reliable and covers from 1.5 to 520MHz continuous where other brands do not.
prcguy
I have an HP/Agilent 8594E spectrum analyzer with tracking generator that I use for antenna testing and also antenna gain measurements. It blew up many months ago and my life has been on hold until last week where I finally got it repaired and back on line. Once you get used to certain things you just can't live without them.
If you intend on experimenting with antennas I highly recommend an antenna analyzer but not the POS MFJ models, they have a history of problems. The Comet CAA-500 cost a little more than some but it is very reliable and covers from 1.5 to 520MHz continuous where other brands do not.
prcguy
Tuners are relatively inexpensive. An entry level spectrum analyzer with tracking generator is just shy of $1500. I know because I just bought one!
I about fell out of my chair when I noticed that they are asking $699 for their VSWR Bridge and Software license key. That is 44% of the price for the analyzer itself! :roll:
A 1300MHz Eagle return loss bridge is $489 new and cheaper used. They don't use any software unless that was something specific for your new spectrum analyzer.
prcguy
prcguy
The hardware part is engineered to precisely fit the TG out and Spec input ports directly, with the DUT conveniently placed up front. The software key unlocks features that are useful for many things besides sweep VSWR measurements. I'm just not convinced that I will ever need most of the advanced features.
Here is a short video demonstration of the process:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT3sGk6bGkU
I love the 8" color screen!
Back to the realm of somewhat affordable antenna analyzers.... ++ on the Comet CAA-500. One of our members has one and as noted it covers up to a much higher frequency (520mHz) which is important if you have any UHF gear (above 230 mHz, which is top end for many others). Also reported to have better battery life than other similarly priced analyzers with digital display.
K5MPH
Member
As you say you are a newbie and not knowing how really new you are at what im thinking you are a new ham,with that said i would go with the Tuner and if you are planing on building antennas then get your self an antenna analyzer then.......
Lots of ham clubs own analyzers you can borrow if you need one for a short time...
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