What's the best SDR for listening above 1700MHz but with better than 8bits?

[KE7IZL]

Airspy is good for up to 1700MHz at 12bit to 16bit bitdepth (lower sample rate modes increase bitdepth, as it still does hardware sampling at the full sample rate but then the driver decimates to the lower sample rate to increase the bitdepth of the digital signal presented to the user software). Even at the full sample rate mode though, it still gives 12 bits resolution.

Now the HackRF tunes all the way up to 6GHz! Unfortunately it suffers from having an 8bit ADC, and no decimation mode for a simulated higher bitdepth at lower sample rate modes. So it ends up having the problem of all devices with an 8bit ADC, and that is a higher noise floor due to quantization noise.

I hope to find something that's the best of both worlds, up to 6GHz tuning space, and also better than 8bit bitdepth for its ADC.

 

[Dirk_SDR]

With an SDRplay (e.g. RSP1B) receiver and and downconverter like this one:

Nooelec - Nooelec Ham It Down 3GHz Downconverter - Extends The Frequency of Your RTL-SDR or Radio to 3.1GHz! Receive UHF & L-Band Transmissions with Ease. TCXO, SMA Connectivity & Multiple Power Options

<p>Experience enhanced performance and versatility with the Ham It Down 3GHz Downconverter. Designed to convert signals from the 1.55GHz to 3.1GHz range into the frequency range of software-defined radio devices like our NESDR series of RTL-SDRs and the

www.nooelec.com

... you could get up to 3,1 GHz with 14 Bit.
Above this it gets expensive:

Tuner/Downconverter 2 - 6 GHz to 1 - 2 GHz Baseband

 

[KE7IZL]

With an SDRplay (e.g. RSP1B) receiver and and downconverter like this one:

Nooelec - Nooelec Ham It Down 3GHz Downconverter - Extends The Frequency of Your RTL-SDR or Radio to 3.1GHz! Receive UHF & L-Band Transmissions with Ease. TCXO, SMA Connectivity & Multiple Power Options

<p>Experience enhanced performance and versatility with the Ham It Down 3GHz Downconverter. Designed to convert signals from the 1.55GHz to 3.1GHz range into the frequency range of software-defined radio devices like our NESDR series of RTL-SDRs and the

www.nooelec.com

... you could get up to 3,1 GHz with 14 Bit.
Above this it gets expensive:

Tuner/Downconverter 2 - 6 GHz to 1 - 2 GHz Baseband

Cool. I didn't even know that you could get something at that high of a frequency in a device as simple as a normal down converter. If it's possible to get a 3.1GHz down converter, can that then be done for ANY frequency? Even up to 6GHz?

 

[KE7IZL]

I just found this! Software Defined Block Up/Down Converter 2G~14GHz Block up/down converter. When functioning as a down converter, its input band is a 5.5GHz wide band that can be tuned anywhere between 2GHz and 14GHz, and its output band is between 500MHz and 6GHz. When configured to be an up converter, the downconverter input band specs become the output band specs, and downconverter output band band specs become the input band specs. It uses a USB port and PC software to allow a computer to set the frequency and up/down conversion mode. And at a price of just $1499, while expensive, it actually seems to be a huge bargon given the features it has (features usually only found in equipment costing $10000 or more).

And their about page says this:

Each of our RF/microwave modules meet our exceedingly high standards of quality, performance and excellent value, and are 100% MADE IN USA.

Which I'm glad to see. Considering the huge price difference between their price and what I expected it to cost, I was thinking it was made in China, but it's actually made in the US.

 

[mikenet]

WiNRADIO makes both complete receivers, as well as extenders in that range.

If you’re looking to go cheaper, you could either build up your own front end and mixer (maybe look for used Mini-Circuits components) or cannibalize something that operates in your band of interest and tap the IF.

 

[radar_hunter]

"Best" in the title sounds like price is not the primary concern. And in that case, the Winradio G69 is most certainly an excellent receiver.

If you want more bandwidth, transmitting capability or more processing chains, higher-end USRPs, Aaronia Spectran or Per Vices products are something to be considered.

If you are looking for a cheaper one, USRP B200 is probably among the cheapest options for up to 6 GHz:

USRP B200 USB Software Defined Radio (SDR) - Ettus Research

USRP B200 SDR: Fully integrated, low-cost, single-board software defined radio with continuous frequency coverage from 70 MHz – 6 GHz and 56MHz of bandwidth.

www.ettus.com

HackRF is only a fraction of that, but as you said it's only 8-bit, and it has been criticized for its sensitivity and other RF performance.

 

[Unitrunker2]

Now the HackRF tunes all the way up to 6GHz! Unfortunately it suffers from having an 8bit ADC, and no decimation mode for a simulated higher bitdepth at lower sample rate modes. So it ends up having the problem of all devices with an 8bit ADC, and that is a higher noise floor due to quantization noise.

There's two kinds of decimation going on here.

There's the option of pre-decimating the spectrum before displaying it in the waterfall. That is independent from the decimation that takes place to convert an individual narrow band signal into usable audio. My minor point is the two are separate. Changing the pre-decimation to get a lower noise floor on the waterfall makes weak signals easier to spot but does nothing for your ability to listen.

Of course, starting off with more bits is always a bonus.

 

[dlwtrunked]

Cool. I didn't even know that you could get something at that high of a frequency in a device as simple as a normal down converter. If it's possible to get a 3.1GHz down converter, can that then be done for ANY frequency? Even up to 6GHz?

I use a Signal Hound spectrum analyzer for up to 6 GHz but we are talking just over $1000.

 

[KE7IZL]

WiNRADIO makes both complete receivers, as well as extenders in that range.

If you’re looking to go cheaper, you could either build up your own front end and mixer (maybe look for used Mini-Circuits components) or cannibalize something that operates in your band of interest and tap the IF.

Interesting Winradio devices. But the website doesn't state their prices. I've found in the past when a company doesn't show prices it's usually because the actual price is so insanely huge, that they are afraid of scaring away potential customers. So even though the price isn't mentioned, I'm going to guess they cost over ten thousand dollars, or possibly even several tens of thousands of dollars.

 

[sunwave]

Interesting Winradio devices. But the website doesn't state their prices. I've found in the past when a company doesn't show prices it's usually because the actual price is so insanely huge, that they are afraid of scaring away potential customers. So even though the price isn't mentioned, I'm going to guess they cost over ten thousand dollars, or possibly even several tens of thousands of dollars.

Winradio has a online shop. Prices are high. Nothing over $1,265 usd. Nothing lower than $1,034 usd.

WiNRADiO Direct Order Shop

 

[KE7IZL]

Winradio has a online shop. Prices are high. Nothing over $1,265 usd. Nothing lower than $1,034 usd.

WiNRADiO Direct Order Shop

Reading up on that, it has cellphone bands blocked. Unlike HackRF, AirSpy, and RTL-SDR which all have NO BLOCKED BANDS, for truly continuous tuning. But then we are back where we started. HackRF has only 8bits per I or Q sample (rather than 16 bits), and AirSpy (which has higher bitdepth) unfortunately doesn't allow transmitting. And WinRadio has cellphone bands blocked.

I just want an all-purpose 16bits-per-sample SDR transceiver, with a sample rate at least up to 10MSPS, and tuning from 0Hz to 6GHz. By all-purpose I mean an SDR device that is capable of doing almost anything in the RF spectrum that you could imagine an RF device doing, legal or illegal, and the manufacturer doesn't block anything. They leave it up to YOU to determine how you will use it (the honor system, yes you can use it for anything, but we hope you will only use it for what's legal). The HackRF is basically this, but I've found that it's low bit-depth is a showstopper for some things. I was hoping that your description of WinRad meant it could fill in where HackRF leaves off, but with it having cellphone bands blocked, it no longer is truly an all-purposes SDR. Again, what I'm really looking for is a truly all-purpose 16bits-per-sample SDR transceiver, with a sample rate at least up to 10MSPS, and tuning from 0Hz to 6GHz.

Update:
Managed to find an unblocked version on eBay, that they say they got in brand new condition from government surplus. But the price is over $3000!!!!!!!! YIKES!!!!!!!

WinRadio WR-G39DDCe Excelsior Premium Mil-Spec Receiver APCO 25 & Digital Suite | eBay

This sale is for a new and elite mil-spec SDR receiver manufactured by WinRadio (serial #13H27234). We were able to obtain a new receiver that was surplus. WinRadio's specs for the Excelsior The APCO 25 software enables the receiver to be able to pick up the digital APCO P25 Phase 1 signals.

www.ebay.com

 

[KE7IZL]

Update 2:
It looks like WinRadio also suffers from the problem of being a receive-only device. HackRF can also transmit, but as I mentioned before, it has the limitation of being only 8-bits per sample.

Update 3:
I see that ADALM-Pluto over at https://www.analog.com/en/resources...tware/evaluation-boards-kits/adalm-pluto.html has TX and RX capabilities (in either half-duplex or full-duplex modes) and runs between between 325MHz and 3.5GHz. It has a maximum bandwidth of 20MHz. And it has 12bit bit-depth (16 times the resolution of 8bit bit-depth). While a narrower range of frequencies than the HackRF, it still covers most stuff that I'd probably use it for. And it also isn't a cellphone blocked device, which I see as a big bonus (sucks when you can't even tune through a specific band, just because the government says so).

 

[radar_hunter]

I think the options may be scarce when if you want something from DC to 6 GHz, or even XX kHz to 6 GHz.

Per Vices and Aaronia products, but they are extremely expensive. And I would say the former are SDR development platforms rather than just receivers.

The top-end Winradios are also very expensive.


BladeRF can do 70 MHz to 6 GHz or so and is probably one of the cheapest options. It also has a very high bandwidth (56 MHz but should be capable of 120 MHz or so with lower ADC resolution).

USRP B200 is similar.

But if you want to include the lower VHF and below, you need something else. Not sure if the more expensive USRPs can be configured for that, with correct daughterboards.

 

[dlwtrunked]

Airspy is good for up to 1700MHz at 12bit to 16bit bitdepth (lower sample rate modes increase bitdepth, as it still does hardware sampling at the full sample rate but then the driver decimates to the lower sample rate to increase the bitdepth of the digital signal presented to the user software). Even at the full sample rate mode though, it still gives 12 bits resolution.

Now the HackRF tunes all the way up to 6GHz! Unfortunately it suffers from having an 8bit ADC, and no decimation mode for a simulated higher bitdepth at lower sample rate modes. So it ends up having the problem of all devices with an 8bit ADC, and that is a higher noise floor due to quantization noise.

I hope to find something that's the best of both worlds, up to 6GHz tuning space, and also better than 8bit bitdepth for its ADC.

If you really are serious, although it is really designed as a spectrum analyzer rather than a receiver, get a Signal Hound (going to be >$1). this is assuming you are looking to analyze signals as you are not going to find anything to "listen to" up there. For most, there is little to hear unless you travel to get close to your signals--as I do.

 

[KE7IZL]

I think the options may be scarce when if you want something from DC to 6 GHz, or even XX kHz to 6 GHz.

Per Vices and Aaronia products, but they are extremely expensive. And I would say the former are SDR development platforms rather than just receivers.

The top-end Winradios are also very expensive.


BladeRF can do 70 MHz to 6 GHz or so and is probably one of the cheapest options. It also has a very high bandwidth (56 MHz but should be capable of 120 MHz or so with lower ADC resolution).

USRP B200 is similar.

But if you want to include the lower VHF and below, you need something else. Not sure if the more expensive USRPs can be configured for that, with correct daughterboards.

Looking more at ADALM Pluto, it seems someone figured out how to increase its frequency range (normally 325MHz to 3.8GHz) up to a whopping 70Mhz to approximately 6GHz. They found by putting it in serial port mode (so the computer sees it as a virtual serial port, instead of an SDR) and using any terminal software, you can send a command to it that changes the firmware settings. This tricks its microcontroller into thinking it has a different tuner chip with a wider tuning range, than the chip that's actually installed in it. This way its microcontroller will actually attempt to send the tuner chip commands for tuning over a wider range than the chip that's in it can theoretically tune over. Turns out that the tuner chip installed in it actually CAN tune over this wider range, but it's just an undocumented feature. Some speculate that the tuner chips actually used in this device (which have a model number one lower than the more advanced chips you are telling it that it has with this hack) are actually basically just the same chip, but are not guaranteed the same performance over the wider tuning range (possibly due to failing quakity-control checks for the wider tuning range, which is why officially they are treated as having a narrower tuning range, and given a lower model number) but the silicon circuits inside seem to be identical, as they will still attempt to tune over the wider range if the microcontroller sends the command to tune to a frequency in the wider range. So this hack is just to get the microcontroller to be willing to send the commands to the tuner chip that will put it outside of its officially supported tuning range.

This means tuning over almost the whole frequency range of the HackRF, but with 12bit bitdepth, and the ability to simultaneously transmit and receive.

 

[dickie757]

Easy to do. I did it a while back, but when I updated firmware, it reverted to orig spectrum limits. Be aware if you Tx....once you hit Tx, you cannot stop it. A cord rip is the only way. Maybe a new update fixed it, but have not touched it in a long time.