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What's the deal? | OTAP Processing Time Question

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mpaine

Network Engineer
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USA
I'm working on an RM system setup for our internal operations at work, and it's prompting me to have some questions that are a bit outside of my knowledge scope at this point. My system topology is the following:

TRBOnet Enterprise Server (Dispatch consoles)
Radio Management Server (containing RM server, job processor, DDMS, MNIS not currently running, and RM Client)
Radio Management Client in remote office (for USB programming jobs)
XPR4550 Control Station (since I don't have NAI data license for my SLR5700s)

I run USB programming jobs like a dream. OTAP also seems to work, but it seems rather odd to me in regards to how it operates. I've got ARS enabled on my radios, and they're programmed to reach out to the radio ID of the control station. I confirm that this works by running wireshark and watching the ARS packets come in and be acknowledged by DDMS. See below:

Screen Shot 2022-02-11 at 1.07.31 PM.png
As you can see, line 5 & 6 detail an incoming ARS packet when the radio turns on, and an acknowledgement sent back. Line 9 details the radio sending an ARS packet when the radio turns off, and obviously no acknowledgement coming out.

So what I see as far as the weird behavior goes is this - OTAP jobs seem to complete whenever they want, and not right away if the radio is available. Obviously my system knows the status of the radio, as ARS packets are getting through and registering with DDMS which is sending an ack back. Sometimes OTAP jobs will run in 15 minutes after I send it to the test radio, sometimes it will take hours. Keep in mind that these are always just small writes, I am not trying to read whole CPs or anything. I've even tried "jump-starting" the process by forcing ARS on the radio by doing a system/site change or power cycling, and even that does not start up a Pending "Waiting for Radio" OTAP job. When the job eventually does load into device monitor and run, it's pretty fast.

Is there some rhyme or reason to this? Is this proper operation of OTAP? I plan on only using OTAP for our mobiles in our fleet vehicles, so sending periodic writes whenever we have contact changes or channel updates etc. Portables too, but at least I have the USB option there to make it a little more quick for instant updates. I can indeed ping the radios from my server via their converted radio ID/IP addresses.

It almost seems like DDMS is not notifying the Device Monitor that the presence of the radio is there, and that the OTAP job is just going out on a standard timer (like an RM system without presence would act normally. For clarity, I am running all these jobs on the same machine that the control station is hooked to and that DDMS and Device Monitor are running on. Firewall is off. Below is the result of a PN server communication test, so DM can get to DDMS on port 3000.

Screen Shot 2022-02-11 at 1.12.52 PM.png

Any ideas on this? This is kind of intriguing me so I'm happy to be schooled by someone who knows more than me on this. I haven't called Motorola tech support yet, and am dreading having to do so, so I wanted to bring it to the table here first.

Thanks folks.
 
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Firebuff880

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Aug 28, 2006
Messages
658
Location
Boynton Beach, FL
TRBOnet Enterprise Server (Dispatch consoles)
Radio Management Server (containing RM server, job processor, DDMS, MNIS not currently running, and RM Client)
Radio Management Client in remote office (for USB programming jobs)
XPR4550 Control Station (since I don't have NAI data license for my SLR5700s)

For my systems I prefer to do this --

Avtec Consoles with VPGate server ..

Radio Management Server (RM Services, RM Client, Job Processor (at least 6 threads) and Device Programmer (Monitor) for IP (repeaters and CMSS as well as WiFi capable subscribers.) Good size Windows Servier 2019 or latter VM instance.

Radio Gateway - DDMS (Non Cap Max), MNIS and Device Programmer (Monitor) if using Control Station this has to be a real box otherwise make it a VM. Use a XPR-5000 with current code and ensure that it is NOT part of any voice group. TXGroup None RxGroup None.

Radio Management Client workstations / Laptops as needed. RM Client / Device Programmer (Monitor) .

OTAP is slow and can be unresponsive at times, Much prefer WiFi of the choices and for any sizeable operation Wire line Data.

If you can get rid of the Gen-1 radios (4000/6000) then move to Caller Alias and simplify your contact maintenance work load.
 

Tech21

Member
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OTAP only sends out little bits of data a time. OTAP is never going to be quick when it comes to programming. It's really not worth the hassle to do because it could either take a few minutes, a few hours or even days. You're not doing anything wrong and their is no way to make OTAP move faster. The most ideal option would be to have your mobiles wifi enabled and set up an access point specifically for RM somewhere you know the vehicles have to go like the county/city fuel depot or publics work garage.
 

wa8pyr

Technischer Guru
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Lead Database Admin
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7,004
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OTAP only sends out little bits of data a time. OTAP is never going to be quick when it comes to programming. It's really not worth the hassle to do because it could either take a few minutes, a few hours or even days. You're not doing anything wrong and their is no way to make OTAP move faster. The most ideal option would be to have your mobiles wifi enabled and set up an access point specifically for RM somewhere you know the vehicles have to go like the county/city fuel depot or publics work garage.

Exactly right. I'll occasionally get customers thinking their entire fleet could be reprogrammed over-the-air in a hot minute, when in reality it just isn't designed for fleet-wide reprogramming; it's fine for a few radios here and there.

On our system, only up to three channels at a site can be used for data, and as voice channel needs increase, data channel availability decreases (or goes away altogether); that's when you get into the situation of an OTAP push taking hours or even days.
 

mpaine

Network Engineer
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Messages
30
Location
USA
Great responses, thanks guys. It was never meant on our side to be a "lets program all radios right away" function, but merely something that I could push out a few changes at a "whenever" pace which seems to be what it's fine for. I was just kind of wondering why the OTAP programs wouldn't initiate an OTAP job immediately when a radio reports it was online, aka an ARS message inbound to the control station. I am going to experiment with WiFi as well, as I have a couple radios that are enabled and a bunch more that are capable.
 
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