Whats your feeling on encryption and Provoice

[nwadler]

I have been doing searches on this sight and I am not satisfied with what I have found. My question to all of you is do you think that all and I mean all communications need to be made unscanable. That means unless your radio is programmed for it you wont hear it. I think things like provoice which is becoming popular need to be scannable for safety or news reasons. Its just rediculous what they are doing now to keep people from hearing comms that they used to listen to. Encrypt some but not all. Lets here what all of you have to say.

 

[Dubbin]

My question to all of you is do you think that all and I mean all communications need to be made unscanable.

Not to be mean but don't you think that is kind of a stupid question to ask in a scanning forum? If we all thought that then we would be out of a hobby.

 

[nwadler]

I know I know but for one second take this out of the context of ooh thats stupid and think from a public safety point of view. Think of a mutual aid agency responding in trying to listen to whats going on but cant because there radio isnt on their system and they have no way of listening to them. I know this idea can be picked apart but just for one second put some thought into this. Thanks.

 

[bestes1206]

A point that is seldom brought up. Every public safety radio system does not belong to the public safety agency but the taxpayers of that locality! It is your radio system paid for by you. In a far off land and a time long ago I was a deputy my feelings then and now are that ONLY radio traffic involving active investigations should be encrypted. Just my 2 cents I can not think of any real world example of someone monitoring public safety communications resulting in harm to an officer or hindering an investigation.

 

[nwadler]

There have been few instances, at least publicly known, of an person with the intention of doing harm using a scanner to listen to police and other traffic. But things like alqueda and others if they ave the money they will get it. Back to the subject there is no reason to encrypt everything.

 

[ShawnCowden]

hell they prob dont even understand english to understand the info.

10-codes and stuff. i doubt they care to listen to scanners really[/u]

 

[northzone]

I think when rebanding soon comes along and a lot of agencies need to replace their radios you are going to see a BIG move to P25 digital systems. That makes it very easy to encrypt and I believe we will see alot more of it in the future.

I, like anyone else in the scanning hobby do not like it. But I think there is not a court in the country that would say we have a "right" to listen to law enforcement communications. It has been a fun hobby for the last 35 years and actually a good career (public safety radio tech and later an engineer).

I think we can not really guess what time will bring but my bets are on a lot more encrypted systems. IRAC has already mandated it for all new federal systems that carry LE traffic. One county in my state (Orange, CA) has enabled it on 99% of their law traffic full time.

Luckly I enjoy most listening to fire traffic and they don't seem to be moving that direction, YET. :wink:

 

[oregontreehugger]

I agree and think the rate at which technology is improving will bring encryption and lots of other digital goodies sooner rather than later. And with Uncle Sam footing a lot of the bills, it makes it that much easier to justify in communities that otherwise couldn't afford it.

When the radio goes silent it'll be time for another hobby.

 

[ShawnCowden]

When the radio goes silent it'll be time for another hobby. [/quote]

MAYBE HAM RADIO still a communication's hobby

 

[tglendye]

Encryption and Provoice are different animals. Their only similarity is they are both "unscannable". That being said I don't like Provoice because of the propriety rights and it not being scannable. I think encryption has its place. Localities who do, should not use it on all comm's and use it only on any sensitive traffic.

 

[tglendye]

Encryption and Provoice are different animals. Their only similarity is they are both "unscannable". That being said I don't like Provoice because of the propriety rights and it not being scannable. I think encryption has its place. Localities who do, should not use it on all comm's and use it only on any sensitive traffic.

 

[lschmidt]

If your community or county starts talking about a new radio system thats
the time to take action by speaking your mind at city council or county
supervisor meetings.Do not just sit back and do nothing just to find out later that all of a sudden you cannot hear anything.
New radio systems should always be voted on by the voters even if a DHS grant pays for it.If that was done I bet a lot of these expensive systems would be voted down.

 

[ROBERTROUSE]

In my city encryption is coming very common
and been used more often. They encrypt traffic accidents,
fire calls and medical calls. They do not encrypt the animal
calls as of yet.

I listen more to business communications now and as for public
safety. I think it will be soon dead in the water. In my city
it really is a thing of the past.

Robert

 

[KT4HX]

hell they prob dont even understand english to understand the info.

10-codes and stuff. i doubt they care to listen to scanners really[/u]

Don't count on it! While many of the day to day fighters may be illiterate, they have a large number of highly intelligent and resourceful operatives around the world. The worst thing you can ever do is underestimate your enemy.

Not to say I know they are using scanners, but lets say it would not surprise me to any great extent if that turned out to be the case in some instances. Afterall, they are very efficient at surveillance.

However, as far as the thread itself, I believe there is some sensitive investigative instances that do warrant the use of encryption. If I were on a team that was carrying out a drug bust, or a SWAT action (as examples), I do believe I would feel better knowing the people I am going after have no way of monitoring my communications. However, for run of the mill police work (which is probably about 99% of the time), I feel it should be open and available to that portion of the public who has any interest in monitoring - like US!

 

[loumaag]

I think when rebanding soon comes along and a lot of agencies need to replace their radios you are going to see a BIG move to P25 digital systems. That makes it very easy to encrypt and I believe we will see alot more of it in the future.

I am not sure I agree with this statement. Encryption, whether on digital radios or analog still carries a price tag. Encryption is not a funciton of the system, encryption is a function of the individual radio. And each radio so equipped costs more than the same radio without it, so it usually comes down to a budget thing as much as a security issue.

IMHO, encryption certainly has its place for some operations, but as has been previously pointed out, this is the exception, rather than the norm. I have always been of the opinion that open comms are more helpful to public safety than harmful.

 

[nwadler]

If everyone just went with APCO there would not be much of a problem. It is still scanable as of now but the nice thing is that any person who comes into any district on the same band can talk to each other. An apco radio from MA/Comm and an apco radio from Icom can talk to each other using the simplex apco technology and still be a secure transmission but scannable. It allows people to buy what they can afford and not what the system designes says they have to buy.

 

[Tophtoh]

My question to all of you is do you think that all and I mean all communications need to be made unscanable.

Not to be mean but don't you think that is kind of a stupid question to ask in a scanning forum? If we all thought that then we would be out of a hobby.

I don't think you should say "stupid", everyone here is learning new things everyday. One person might know something you didn't, or vice versa. No question is "stupid", life is a learning process, you'd never learn if questions weren't asked. Thanks

 

[whooey]

My simple reply to the original topic:

I think that encryption and pro voice both suck!

What do these people have to hide, fughedaboutit...

 

[N_Jay]

My question to all of you is do you think that all and I mean all communications need to be made unscanable.

Not to be mean but don't you think that is kind of a stupid question to ask in a scanning forum? If we all thought that then we would be out of a hobby.

I don't think you should say "stupid", everyone here is learning new things everyday. One person might know something you didn't, or vice versa. No question is "stupid", life is a learning process, you'd never learn if questions weren't asked. Thanks

Maybe the question is not STUPID, but it does bring out all the same STUPID answers each time. :wink:

The decision to use encryption is an operational one to be made by the management of the your city/county/state public safety agencies. If you don't like their decisions, then take it up with their management (the publicly elected officials). (You a scanner listener setting operational policy is a STUPID answer!)

As for you voting on what system they buy???? Come on, you don't vote on anything that gets purchased, so why is a radio system special? (Suggesting the the populous vote on a procurement is a STUPID answer!)

As for you OWNING it, that's a BS argument. Go ask a cop to give you ride to and from work, using the justification that you PAID for the car? (Another STUPID answer!)

And as for the BIG one that you have the RIGHT to listen, that is only true until they decide you don't by selecting a system you can't listen to.
You have have the right to listen to a conversation on the street, but when they take it into the office, you DON"T have the right to follow. Same logic applies. (Insisting in rights you don't have is a STUPID answer.)

The only good answer was the one to go to the public meetings and make your voice heard. Just make sure when you stand up to speak, you don't say something STUPID! :twisted:

(Yes, I know I am going to get flamed!) :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[nmfire10]

My simple reply to the original topic:

I think that encryption and pro voice both suck!

What do these people have to hide, fughedaboutit...

And people wonder why the folks planning these systems don't care what your opinion is?