Where is the IRS?

[SOFA_KING]

Where did the IRS go?

I have searched the RR forums and databases with no positive results. It has been a very long time since I have heard any action on the old 418 MHz freqs. Have they done the new UHF bandplan reorg thing? Have they gone back to VHF? Any one have some solid intel on these guys???

I have heard P25 (without confirmation of NAC or voice...no decoder at the time) on 165.9500, but I have herd "Sector" (now Charlie 100) on that same freq here in SE FL in the past. It was rare, but confirmed more than once. This is one freq to watch. Of course we know about 166.0000 / 167.1000, but that used to be a different part of the IRS which sounded like internal investigations to me. 167.0000 is also a possible VHF channel. But are they still on UHF, and if so, where?

Here is a possible scenario if they flipped to the new band plan:

RPTR / INPUT

409.1750 / 418.1750 possible USPS on output freq
409.2000 / 418.2000 IRAC UCX interstate commerce on output freq - not likely
409.2250 / 418.2250 possible USPS on output freq
409.7250 / 418.7250 very possible - open output

I'm going to scan them for a while with dual mode P25 / PL 123.0. Maybe I will get lucky!

Phil

 

[b7spectra]

Different areas probably use different frequencies. Lots of agencies are on direct connect (i.e. NexTel).

 

[SOFA_KING]

Different areas probably use different frequencies. Lots of agencies are on direct connect (i.e. NexTel).

These frequencies were well established across the nation. It was a major system and well organized. I can't believe it is gone. I can believe it moved, but where? No public LE agency ever depends 100% on Nextel as a main communication network. We all know they use it, but if a natural disaster hits, all cell coms get impared to some degree. Power and telco are interupted (knocking down sites) and call blocking goes way up as people overload the existing working sites (if there are any). That is not a safe condition for LEOs.

It is possible they moved to another existing system, but what system would they move to? DEA? They have to be somewhere!

Anyone still hearing the (at one time) known national UHF freqs?

Phil

 

[ChrisP]

These frequencies were well established across the nation. It was a major system and well organized. I can't believe it is gone. I can believe it moved, but where? No public LE agency ever depends 100% on Nextel as a main communication network. We all know they use it, but if a natural disaster hits, all cell coms get impared to some degree. Power and telco are interupted (knocking down sites) and call blocking goes way up as people overload the existing working sites (if there are any). That is not a safe condition for LEOs.

It is possible they moved to another existing system, but what system would they move to? DEA? They have to be somewhere!

Anyone still hearing the (at one time) known national UHF freqs?

Phil

You ask a good question, Phil. I have been wondering the same thing for a while now. I do believe the UHF system has been abandoned for years, with most Treasury activity on VHF. Some have reported the old UHF frequencies used in southern California a few years ago, but nothing recent.

The IRS went through some major re-organizations a while back, and that's when most of the radio communications seemed to have dried up. I believe that some of the various LE departments have been combined and some responsibilities have changed.

The May Fed Files column will deal with this question and I'll see if anyone can provide some answers.

- Chris

 

[jpryor]

The 165.9500 MHz frequency is a P25 repeater output for both Detroit and Toledo. Have heard "Detroit Base" and other units every now and then, and Toledo repeater only when it first was put in service. Don't have any NACs or inputs.

 

[DiGiTaLD]

Slightly OT...

Power and telco are interupted (knocking down sites) and call blocking goes way up as people overload the existing working sites (if there are any). That is not a safe condition for LEOs.

A little OT here, but these factors do not seem to deter agencies that rely on leased telco lines to link the sites of their multisite trunked systems together...

 

[WayneH]

In Northern California they use various non-linked repeaters on 165.9500 P25. The NAC varies by the site but is like 001, 002, 003, etc. The tend to be very quiet but once and a while you'll catch them. I used to hear them on encrypted simplex channels more often than on the repeater. Though that was not often either.

 

[ecps92]

411.5500 R D-023 Security Andover Mass

I have not heard any of the 167/166 Repeaters since the Late 90's here in New England.

Where did the IRS go?

I have searched the RR forums and databases with no positive results. It has been a very long time since I have heard any action on the old 418 MHz freqs. Have they done the new UHF bandplan reorg thing? Have they gone back to VHF? Any one have some solid intel on these guys???

I have heard P25 (without confirmation of NAC or voice...no decoder at the time) on 165.9500, but I have herd "Sector" (now Charlie 100) on that same freq here in SE FL in the past. It was rare, but confirmed more than once. This is one freq to watch. Of course we know about 166.0000 / 167.1000, but that used to be a different part of the IRS which sounded like internal investigations to me. 167.0000 is also a possible VHF channel. But are they still on UHF, and if so, where?

Here is a possible scenario if they flipped to the new band plan:

RPTR / INPUT

409.1750 / 418.1750 possible USPS on output freq
409.2000 / 418.2000 IRAC UCX interstate commerce on output freq - not likely
409.2250 / 418.2250 possible USPS on output freq
409.7250 / 418.7250 very possible - open output

I'm going to scan them for a while with dual mode P25 / PL 123.0. Maybe I will get lucky!

Phil

 

[SOFA_KING]

You ask a good question, Phil. I have been wondering the same thing for a while now. I do believe the UHF system has been abandoned for years, with most Treasury activity on VHF. Some have reported the old UHF frequencies used in southern California a few years ago, but nothing recent.

The IRS went through some major re-organizations a while back, and that's when most of the radio communications seemed to have dried up. I believe that some of the various LE departments have been combined and some responsibilities have changed.

The May Fed Files column will deal with this question and I'll see if anyone can provide some answers.

- Chris

Sounds good, Chris. Someone has to know for sure. I look forward to the May issue.

Wayne and Jpryor...Maybe that is what they did...move back to VHF and went under the Customs dispatch on 165.9500. It is the only active P25 Customs freq I have heard down here, so there must be a reason why it is different. If that is the case, I'm scanning it (and I feel better). What other simplex channels did you hear, Wayne? I would bet they are the same nationwide.

Phil

 

[SOFA_KING]

411.5500 R D-023 Security Andover Mass

I have not heard any of the 167/166 Repeaters since the Late 90's here in New England.

Bill...Security as in building security?

Those 166.0000 / 167.1000 channels are used as rarely as the FCC repeater! But I bet that they are still there. PL 131.8 as I recall. It was the late 90's when I heard the last VHF as well. I am some diatance from the major city area, and they were rare before, so maybe...just maybe those are still ready and waiting. Who knows?

They are all in the scan list, so time will tell.

Phil

 

[W6KRU]

A little OT here, but these factors do not seem to deter agencies that rely on leased telco lines to link the sites of their multisite trunked systems together...

It would depend on the disaster. Some less than disastrous events have knocked significant chunks of telco down.

 

[ecps92]

Yes, Bldg and Complex.

The site is quite large and handles most of New England
Day Care and a Fitness Center

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE
ANDOVER SERVICE CENTER
ANDOVER, MASSACHUSETTS

Bill...Security as in building security?

Those 166.0000 / 167.1000 channels are used as rarely as the FCC repeater! But I bet that they are still there. PL 131.8 as I recall. It was the late 90's when I heard the last VHF as well. I am some diatance from the major city area, and they were rare before, so maybe...just maybe those are still ready and waiting. Who knows?

They are all in the scan list, so time will tell.

Phil

 

[KE7JFF]

Isn't the actual tax enforcement operated by the DOJ Tax office? I would imagine to look for IRS employees on there working with the DOJ.

 

[diskmonger]

The 165.9500 MHz frequency is a P25 repeater output for both Detroit and Toledo. Have heard "Detroit Base" and other units every now and then, and Toledo repeater only when it first was put in service. Don't have any NACs or inputs.

The Detroit repeater input used to be 167.000. But, the repeater is so seldom used I have never been able to verify that is still the case.

I heard some very brief P25 traffic ONE time on 165.950, almost like an accidental keyup. I had a NAC hit of 005. Unknown if that was the Toledo or Detroit repeater though.

I think the consensus is pretty much the IRS is no longer active on UHF, and it's like lightening striking hearing them even use their VHF repeater around here.

It's always in my scan list scanning though, you never know.

 

[diskmonger]

Bill...Security as in building security?

Those 166.0000 / 167.1000 channels are used as rarely as the FCC repeater! But I bet that they are still there. PL 131.8 as I recall. It was the late 90's when I heard the last VHF as well. I am some diatance from the major city area, and they were rare before, so maybe...just maybe those are still ready and waiting. Who knows?

They are all in the scan list, so time will tell.

Phil

I heard all the FCC repeater equipment had been removed from service and most of the field techs are using cell phones or nextels now. Although, I had read in a few different places the FCC was planning on being at the Inauguration and their old freq of 167.050 was listed as a possible freq that may be active at the event.

 

[Wilrobnson]

I think I posted this before, but I can personally verify that the Seattle office, at least, uses the IWN trunked system, along with Nextels.

 

[SOFA_KING]

I think I posted this before, but I can personally verify that the Seattle office, at least, uses the IWN trunked system, along with Nextels.

So they still exist...and may have been integrated...but elsewhere those old VHF freqs are suspect. Those freqs go back many years. The reports of P25 indicates recent activity.

I think I'm removing the UHF freqs (lock out for now) to speed things up. If I am not scanning them, I'll be searching everything anyway. I just did a version of my active search file with mode set to anything, and I moved knowns to the Favorites list, and unknowns to the Sky Warn list. It's just a matter of time.

Phil

 

[Hooligan]

Yeah, seems like the IRS Criminal Investigations Division (CID are the people we used to hear on the nationwide common channels like 418.20, 418.175, etc.) dropped UHF & went to VHF P-25 some years ago.

As Wayne said, here in the SF area they're heard occasionally on 165.950 P-25 repeaters & simplex, plus a few "Tac" channels.

The 166.000/167.100MHz freq pair that Diskmonger mentioned above was an IRS Inspector General analog repeater pair located in downtown Detroit as of 2002, very rarely used & possibly gone now.

 

[ecps92]

How did we move from IRS to FCC ??

The FCC was 167.0500 and in many areas has been DOA since the 90's.

We were talking about the IRS 167.1000 / 165.9500 Rptrs

Bill...Security as in building security?

Those 166.0000 / 167.1000 channels are used as rarely as the FCC repeater! But I bet that they are still there. PL 131.8 as I recall. It was the late 90's when I heard the last VHF as well. I am some diatance from the major city area, and they were rare before, so maybe...just maybe those are still ready and waiting. Who knows?

They are all in the scan list, so time will tell.

Phil

 

[SOFA_KING]

Good Source of Info

I came across this NTIA document and it tells a lot of what is and what is to be. This should be required reading for those interested in this forum!

Page 223 says the IRS CI went to P25 VHF, although I never hear anything of them on 165.9500 here in S. FL. They now use UHF for facility security. This document gives you a real inside look. But the NTIA has no clue about how trunking segragates radio users into a small world that doesn't talk to anyone outside of it. Trunking is a BAD idea for the major LE agencies who need to be frequency agile! Other than that, this is good info.

Read this:

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/reports/2008/FederalStrategicSpectrumPlan2008.pdf

Phil