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Which of these amps should I get?

Best amp for Andrew's base station?

  • KL 503 HD (High Drive)

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • KL 505v

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 60.0%

  • Total voters
    5
  • Poll closed .
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arudlang

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I asked basically the same question over at wwdx, but thought maybe I'd try posting it here as well.

I feel like I've reached the point where its time for an amp. My 980SSB is receiving great through the Hy-Gain CLR-2 on my roof, I can hear lots of skip and I can hear several local contacts who all have at least a little boost in their signal. For them they mostly have to listen to me in the static level, just a few too many miles apart for some of us.

I was originally going to try to keep the cost down and go for something like the KL 203P, but if you give a mouse a cookie... I mean my antenna can handle upwards of 300 watts so I'd like to utilize about 75% of that capacity at times. I would also really like to be able to have more adjustment than just the on/off of the 203P. I don't need/want 250 watts for local contacts to hear me better, but might be nice once in a while on good DX days.

I thought the KL 503 HD would do nicely, for a few dollars over the non-HD model I can plug and play and continue to avoid opening up my stock radio (won't need to try to drop the dead key from its current 3-3.5 watts). But then, I read in some forum somewhere that a person considering the 503 should look at the 505v. It was alleged that the 505v is an all around "better" amp that would be more useful down the road when a person finally makes the leap to ham bands.

I did see that the 505v advertises 3-30MHz vs the 25-30MHz of the 503. I don't know what the ham bands are but it kinda makes sense that an amp that can do a wider range of frequencies could be worth spending a bit more. If its a "better" amp anyways all the better.

That would really be peaking my budget though, by the time you add the low pass filter for another $42 and add some shipping we're talking around $400 probably to go the 505v route. That's a hefty bill considering I hardly have half that much into the rest of the base station setup so far. I don't want to buy a 203P just to wish for more power later and end up with the 203P on the shelf, so maybe this is a "do it right, do it once" kinda purchase(?)
 

prcguy

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Thew 505 should already have a 30MHz low pass filter built in. Go big or go home, that's my motto. If your antenna will handle 300 watts get a 500 watt amp and back it off a little, which is the opposite of most people on CB trying to get 200 watts out of a 100 watt amp.

I asked basically the same question over at wwdx, but thought maybe I'd try posting it here as well.

I feel like I've reached the point where its time for an amp. My 980SSB is receiving great through the Hy-Gain CLR-2 on my roof, I can hear lots of skip and I can hear several local contacts who all have at least a little boost in their signal. For them they mostly have to listen to me in the static level, just a few too many miles apart for some of us.

I was originally going to try to keep the cost down and go for something like the KL 203P, but if you give a mouse a cookie... I mean my antenna can handle upwards of 300 watts so I'd like to utilize about 75% of that capacity at times. I would also really like to be able to have more adjustment than just the on/off of the 203P. I don't need/want 250 watts for local contacts to hear me better, but might be nice once in a while on good DX days.

I thought the KL 503 HD would do nicely, for a few dollars over the non-HD model I can plug and play and continue to avoid opening up my stock radio (won't need to try to drop the dead key from its current 3-3.5 watts). But then, I read in some forum somewhere that a person considering the 503 should look at the 505v. It was alleged that the 505v is an all around "better" amp that would be more useful down the road when a person finally makes the leap to ham bands.

I did see that the 505v advertises 3-30MHz vs the 25-30MHz of the 503. I don't know what the ham bands are but it kinda makes sense that an amp that can do a wider range of frequencies could be worth spending a bit more. If its a "better" amp anyways all the better.

That would really be peaking my budget though, by the time you add the low pass filter for another $42 and add some shipping we're talking around $400 probably to go the 505v route. That's a hefty bill considering I hardly have half that much into the rest of the base station setup so far. I don't want to buy a 203P just to wish for more power later and end up with the 203P on the shelf, so maybe this is a "do it right, do it once" kinda purchase(?)
 

prcguy

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Looking at diagrams of the older KL505, there is no low pass filter of any kind inside. No big deal, plenty of good used 1kW+ low pass filters on eBay in the $10 to $20 rang as there is not a big market for these.











Interesting, that would help explain & justify some of the price difference. $42 of value there if that is true.
 
Last edited:

AK9R

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I believe buying, selling, or using an external amplifier on CB is non-compliant with FCC rules. However, wearing my moderator's hat, I don't see an issue with discussing the technical merits of these amplifiers.
 

arudlang

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I believe buying, selling, or using an external amplifier on CB is non-compliant with FCC rules. However, wearing my moderator's hat, I don't see an issue with discussing the technical merits of these amplifiers.

Understood. My intention would be to grow into properly licensed stuff on nearby ham bands at the hobby level, and avoid using (and definitely never abusing) amplification on 11 meters. I would like to have the option for 11 meters amped, in case of emergency mostly and maybe occasionally for improving quality of semi-local contacts who also have not quite graduated to ham yet, maybe a DX shot for fun every great once in a while... I'm not asking anyone discuss, condone, or give the thumbs up/down to that, just stating my intentions.


The 505v is looking like a better choice because of its much wider usable frequency range. 3-30MHz means I could potentially use it on 10m, 12m, 15m, 20m, 30m, 40m, 80m whereas with the 503 would only work on 10m and 11m basically. I'm only looking at the technical side of it, I have not researched and do not yet understand what the licensing, power limits, popularity, etc of any of the 10m, 12m, 15m, 20m, 30m, 40m, 80m bands are, or what the likelihood is that I would ever own the right transmitters and license(s) and want/need to use them.

I know that a lot of radios purchased for ham would already have 50-100 watts of output themselves and not necessarily need or work with the 505v amp. But perhaps the amp would be useful with a little handheld of some sort? That's part of what I'm trying to figure out, which gets back to the base question: "spend more dollars today = saved dollars tomorrow???"

If the chances of using the 505v down the road for legitimate & licensed ham stuff are really slim, I guess there is no point in spending the extra money over the 503. But, if spending a little more now could likely save me an entire separate future amp purchase, or let me use a cheaper low-power handheld as a starting point when I get licensed for ham, seems like the better way to go and dig up the extra money for it.

Why limit myself to these two options? Mostly because I would prefer to buy new, and these are some of the only things I can find that I can buy brand new. I am sketched out of spending the same (or more) money on used stuff off ebay in unknown condition, unknown age, unknown amount of abuse, etc. I'm not opposed to learning more about how linear amps work and learning to replace/fix/improve internal parts. If its not all surface mount I can happily replace caps and fets and such on a board, but I (currently) draw the line at using tubes in stone age equipment and having to overpay for unknown condition, used, dwindling supplies of tubes and parts like my brother is currently stuck doing with his amp. Seems like depending on the rarity of the tube you need buying one used tube could cost more than a new 505v. I think I'd rather learn how a modern mosfet amp works and try to maintain one I've owned from new, master an understanding of it, be able to tune it to output clean, etc. The ones I'm looking at are not much difference priced from totally unknown condition used ebay stuff that has far less popularity and public documentation. That's just what I'm seeing from my (very early) perspective.

The real answer is undoubtedly that I need to study and learn a lot more about where I am and where I'm going before firing more guessing-dollars into the air, but I LOVE firing dollars into the air and getting instant-gratification results (personal character flaw) so.. I don't mind getting the cheat sheets from knowledgeable people if they are willing to share ;)

So if everybody but me "knows" from their experience that a 505v I buy today will end up useless to me sitting in a box on a shelf while I've moved on to other equipment, go ahead and say so. Can't promise I will listen to the good advice I asked for and received, but I will try! :LOL:
 

slowmover

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Spend on the antenna system as it’s not really plug & play. Same for ground system. (Antenna Analyzer, then PEP Meter is better way to spend).

A KL203 will get you by just fine till bugs worked out.
 

arudlang

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Spend on the antenna system as it’s not really plug & play. Same for ground system. (Antenna Analyzer, then PEP Meter is better way to spend).

A KL203 will get you by just fine till bugs worked out.

I would kinda like to get an antenna analyzer and learn how to use it, and I would be buying another meter as part of buying an amp just because my current one only goes up to 100 watts. I would not inline an amp into my system without a properly sized meter to monitor what's going on in the power and SWR department, no worries there. I'm already in the habit of re-checking my SWRs briefly before starting to make contacts for the day to make sure nothing has changed in my antenna system overnight (wind folded it or squirrel chewed off the coax)

So I don't have an antenna analyzer, but, I have a working setup of
980SSB -> Jumper -> Power/SWL Meter -> 50' RG58 -> CLR-2 Antenna on the roof
and its working well. 1.4 or less SWR all the way around (I can get that last little bit this spring with an extension or capacity hat, too much snow on the roof now), I receive all kinds of skip and local transmissions, getting 6-15 miles out at least on AM/SSB local talk. I'm not sure what else there is to dial in here, what else could need to be done before putting an amp (and upgraded meter) into the mix? What other bugs need to be worked out?

I don't really want to buy a 203 just to turn around and buy the 505v a few months later and put the 203 on a shelf. I'm not super interested in putting something as big as a 203 into one of my mobile units if I pull it off my base station to replace it with a 505v, I don't like that the output is only on/off and I don't want that much power going out on road trips where I probably won't hear 90% of people trying to reply to my callouts because they are stock or just running the typical KL35 or 60 and are too far away. I mean, it wouldn't be the end of the world but I wouldn't feel like I spent my money very well. The 203 won't help me in the ham bands when I get to that point so it will be a lot harder to utilize.

I guess ruling out the 203 helps me rule out the 503, so that is something...
 

arudlang

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I realize I posed a loaded question and then went immediately to fishing for the answer I wanted to hear. I wanted people to tell me "Yeah, get the 505v for sure, it will work great for your future ham endeavors and give your CB more range in the event of an all-out emergency. You will be able to learn how it works and maintain it and keep it from being a splatter box."

Barring that I guess I might have been hoping someone would tell me if there is any option besides RM Italy worth looking into at a similar price point, but like I said I don't want to spend that money on an antique tube amp where parts cost more than a bushel of RM Italy amps. I don't like the thought of spending the same (or more) money on something with potentially 10+ years of wear and tear on it and far less support if it needs to be worked on because its some obscure brand that is long out of business.

But, the fool (that's me!) has not yet quite been departed from his money. I'm still (trying) to listen to differing opinions of the wiser. The hamster is spinning the wheel but the calculator is running slow. Budget not approved by the other half of the house yet anyways, but I want to be ready with my decision if I suddenly catch her in the right mood and get the green light! :ROFLMAO:
 

AK9R

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I'd start with upgrading your coax to something with less loss. 100 watts into 50 feet of Belden 8240 (RG-58) perfectly terminated into a 50 ohm load (the antenna) would result in about 80 watts at the antenna. Switch to Belden 8267 (RG-213) and you'll get 88.5 watts. Switch to Times LMR-400 and you'll get 92.9 watts.

Your antenna is, I believe, omni-directional. The joke about omni antennas is that they perform equally poorly in all directions. Amateur radio operators and, I suppose, some CB operators make big improvements in their stations by going to "beam" or Yagi antennas in order to get more gain and directivity. But, with a directional antenna, you'd need a thrust bearing on your tower and a rotator and a control box and cable for the rotator. It adds up pretty quickly.
 

arudlang

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I'd start with upgrading your coax to something with less loss.

That is a good enough point, but also a bit of a catch-22. I don't need better coax unless I have an amp, and we're talking going from 20ish percent loss to 5-10% loss (on my current 50' run), which I know is going to be worth ballpark 50+ watts on a 300 watt rated amp so... I'll definitely upgrade the coax at some point but amp first. We're planning on moving within a year if all goes well so that will be a great time to upgrade the coax... when I know how much I will need at the new place. Don't want to by an expensive 50' piece now if I'm going to need a 75-100' piece at the next house in a matter of months, let a few watts burn off the current RG58, its fine :p

That is another reason I want to pass over the 100w KL 203, if I go with the 300w KL 505v I know I'm not at risk of burning up my antenna because 1) the 300w rated amp won't actually put out 300w, and 2) I'll loose upwards of 50 watts off my cheap coax that won't reach the antenna creating even more safety buffer, but what WILL still reach the antenna will still put me in a way better spot than having the 100w amp, good coax or not.

Speaking of antenna...

Your antenna is, I believe, omni-directional. The joke about omni antennas is that they perform equally poorly in all directions. Amateur radio operators and, I suppose, some CB operators make big improvements in their stations by going to "beam" or Yagi antennas in order to get more gain and directivity. But, with a directional antenna, you'd need a thrust bearing on your tower and a rotator and a control box and cable for the rotator. It adds up pretty quickly.

Makes some sense, but at my current location I'm not that interested in a directional antenna. I keep trying to tell people I already have a good antenna, I'm just trying to feed it. I'm trying to make contacts in all directions anytime and its hard enough to scan all the channels and catch people without compounding it by throwing direction into the mix. And my antenna works good, I receive from practically everywhere, it will get out if I can push a little better than a 2.5 watt trickle to it I'm sure of it.

Good input though. Things to keep in mind.
 

AK9R

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I don't need better coax unless I have an amp...
OK, let's assume all of the above, but use 4 watts.
Belden 8240 3.2 watts
Belden 8267 3.5 watts
LMR-400 3.7 watts

Will a half a watt make any difference between making or not making a contact with your current set-up? Probably not.

...its hard enough to scan all the channels...
Are any CBers using radios with spectrum scopes or SDRs with spectrum scopes so they can see a wide chunk of the CB band all at once? I use a radio that has a spectrum scope which lets me see where there's activity so I can tune in to make a contact. I don't have to repeatedly tune up and down the band to see if someone's on.
 

alcahuete

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300w on CB is going to be a noticeable difference. 300w on ham is not. Assuming you run a 100w transmitter, 300w is not even going to get you a single S-unit on the receive end.

Of course, if you ever get into ham, you could always turn the radio down and let the amp do all the work (save the finals), but eh...
 

arudlang

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Are any CBers using radios with spectrum scopes or SDRs with spectrum scopes so they can see a wide chunk of the CB band all at once? I use a radio that has a spectrum scope which lets me see where there's activity so I can tune in to make a contact. I don't have to repeatedly tune up and down the band to see if someone's on.

Hah, no, not likely. We are not that technologically advanced :ROFLMAO: we have a button called "scan" that whips through all the channels spending a fraction of a second on each one, and it stops on that channel if it is currently receiving a signal strong enough to break squelch. Best tech available to most poor chicken-banders ;) it's not nothing though. My custom external mod will bring me halfway between here and there, when it's finished. I won't be able to see the whole band but I will be able to log what channels have been the most active and get a notification, possibly a recording, when activity is found.
 

arudlang

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300w on CB is going to be a noticeable difference. 300w on ham is not. Assuming you run a 100w transmitter, 300w is not even going to get you a single S-unit on the receive end.

Exactly my thought! Will I have a 100w transmitter? Or will it be 50 watts? 20 watts? Can I get a low power transmitter for cheaper than a higher powered one and use the amp with the cheaper lower-powered transmitter? Or is that hoping for too much?
 

slowmover

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FYI: I’ve not ever seen a CB as small as a KL-203. Not a lot bigger than a pack of cigarettes (drop in shirt pocket)

— Power demand (wire gauge) is also small.
 

AK9R

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We are not that technologically advanced :ROFLMAO: we have a button called "scan" that whips through all the channels spending a fraction of a second on each one, and it stops on that channel if it is currently receiving a signal strong enough to break squelch.
Well, then, here's an opportunity to wow all your CB friends. Get an inexpensive RTL-SDR (connects to your computer via USB and has an antenna connection), fire up any of the commonly available SDR programs, and set it to show the CB spectrum. You might be amazed at what you see. You also might be amazed at the amount of trash in the area of Channel 19 from everybody running speech processors and amplifiers.
 

alcahuete

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Exactly my thought! Will I have a 100w transmitter? Or will it be 50 watts? 20 watts? Can I get a low power transmitter for cheaper than a higher powered one and use the amp with the cheaper lower-powered transmitter? Or is that hoping for too much?

The majority of good ham radios are 100w. You can buy QRP radios (IC-705, for example) and use the amp, but most are 100w.
 

n7lrg

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I guess no one cares but I just read that the KL 503 is not legal on any of the ham bands. Don't flame me but if anyone is going to get their ticket it would be a step in the right direction to get certified equipment.
 
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