Which VHF/UHF Digital Modes Are Growing And Which Are Not?

[JASII]

Of the three more common VHF/UHF digital modes, DMR, YSF and D-Star, are they all pretty stable in terms of repeaters being added, radios being sold, activity levels, etc? The reason I ask is occasionally I hear someone say X repeater just switched from this mode to that mode, etc. While it may be true, I am looking for a source of information that is reliable. For example, would the ARRL repeater list be a good source of information?

 

[jonwienke]

DMR is by far the most commonly used.

 

[vagrant]

I agree on the DMR. Second would be D-Star or YSF. Last would be P25. A good source of information would be the coordinating body for each state, of which there can be more than one.

One of those coordinating bodies in California is NARCC. The information there is not absolute. Some of those repeaters may be permanently offline, no longer support a particular data mode, or they may have even switched from one mode to another.

As to stability and activity levels, that would be a guess. I do not know of a reliable source as things change. The margin for error would be a factor. Any numbers reliable today, could be useless a week later due to new technology, upgrades, or pricing changes to current equipment.

 

[AK9R]

@JASII, you've started multiple threads about the relative merits of the various digital voice modes and the equipment available for those modes. I'm not sure what answer you are looking for that you haven't already received.

My opinion is that DMR is holding steady, D-STAR is declining, and while there are a lot of System Fusion repeaters on the air, many of them are standalone with no network connection. NXDN and P25 are popular in isolated situations, but not widely used. There's been a slight up-tick in the number of multi-mode repeaters, but the proliferation of hotspots is reducing the need for repeaters.

 

[Firekite]

A lot of it seems to be fairly regional. In the San Antonio area there’s a little bit of everything, but Fusion seems to be the most common, including a number of repeaters connected to the internet and able to be steered to different rooms. The one I use the most defaults to the Texas Nexus. The larger the metroplex, the more the variety, even if the total numbers tilt in one direction or anther. No matter what mode you use, you’ll have more options in Dallas or Houston, for example, than in some small town that may not have anything at all.

I went through all this pretty deeply recently when I was looking at getting my first digital radio. I ended up going with the Yaesu FTM-400XDR, since it’s happened to fit my particular needs the best. One thing I figured out is that there’s little hope of 2m/70cm amateur radio standardization on a single mode, so there will likely be multiple modes to choose from for years to come.

 

[nd5y]

A lot of it seems to be fairly regional.

Right. It doesn't make any difference what modes are "popular" if they aren't used where you live or travel.

 

[NC1]

A few people here liked DMR at first but it is dying out, and they are leaving it overwhelmingly in favor of Fusion.

Personally, I don't have either, but from what I'm hearing I do think Fusion is going to get much more popular. Those who did like DMR initially have found that after using it for a while it is not really all that great. So many are going with Fusion that I just may be tempted to jump in and get my feet wet and get a radio since I've heard excellent reviews on it.

 

[k6cpo]

A few people here liked DMR at first but it is dying out, and they are leaving it overwhelmingly in favor of Fusion.

Personally, I don't have either, but from what I'm hearing I do think Fusion is going to get much more popular. Those who did like DMR initially have found that after using it for a while it is not really all that great. So many are going with Fusion that I just may be tempted to jump in and get my feet wet and get a radio since I've heard excellent reviews on it.

Really? Where are you?

It's been just the opposite here in San Diego. I don't know the prices on a low-end D-Star radio, but the cheapest Yaesu Fusion HT with the WIRES-X internet connectivity is the FT3DR at $389. Comparing this to the AnyTone 868 DMR HT at $159, people here are scooping up the AnyTone HTs like there's no tomorrow. Inmobile radios, it's a little bit of a different story. The Yaesu FTM-7250DR (with WIRES-X) can be had for $199 while the AnyTone AT-578 Tri-Band DMR mobile is prices at $399, although I would imagine someone that has purchased the AnyTone HT would probably follow up with the mobile.

Of course, there are those of us, like myself, who have more money than sense and we have more than one digital voice system. My club jumped on the Fusion repeater bandwagon when they were offered at ridiculously low prices and bought two of them. Only a handful of members followed up with purchasing Fusion radios themselves and the digital side of our repeaters are rarely used. I don't know how many of the members have purchased DMR radios, but I suspect it's more than bought the fusion radios. I think I might poll the membership to find out how many have one or the other or both.

In my convoluted way, what I'm getting at is that is suspect DMR is going to win out of the other digital voice modes in the long run. It may take a number of years, but as long as the radios can be had at a better price point, it's going to get more and more popular. Hams are cheap...

 

[WA0CBW]

In my area Fusion is used to link eight repeaters. Each repeater is pointing to the Kansas City room which ultimately links all those repeaters. Although each repeater can be steered to different rooms they return to the Kansas City room after five minutes. There are several other Fusion repeaters that have unlimited access to all rooms. There seems to be trend of people going from DMR to Fusion mainly because of the easier programing.
bb

 

[NC1]

Really? Where are you?

I'm in NC, but I guess things are different there in Cali. I think the Donald Duck talk on DMR was getting annoying but the Fusion apparently does not have that issue. That being said, good old fashioned Analog is still king when compared to any of the new digital modes. I guess that is because it is the cheapest and easiest to use, and the analog repeaters are everywhere.
In my opinion, all these different platforms do little more than splinter people into small groups, then they wonder why nobody is on the repeaters anymore. Well that's because instead of having 40 people on one repeater they get divided up among the various flavors of digital. Who the heck is going to have all those radios to cover it all?

Experimenting is a big part of the hobby and it's good to have fun with it, but I doubt that analog must be replaced in order to move forward in the hobby. There really isn't a valid reason to change things from analog to whatever. That's probably the reason 98% of the repeaters around here are analog - it's efficient, reliable, very affordable, and with easily programmable equipment either with a computer or using the keypad.

 

[Golay]

In Metro Detroit, it seems Fusion is really picking up steam in the last year or so. Many of the Fusion repeaters that were bought a few years ago as affordable machines to use for analog, are now Fusion. I believe in the long run, DMR and P25 will slowly fade as Fusion and D-Star become more popular. And I believe the reason will be front panel programming. I've not had a D-Star radio, so I'm not familiar with keypad programming on those. But I have had a Fusion and DMR handheld. Being able to do the programming without having to hook up a computer is becoming a deciding factor when purchasing a digital radio for many people I know.

And I take exception to those who say "Yeah, it's a Fusion repeater, but it's not networked" like being a stand-alone machine is a deterrent to users. Here in Detroit, the digital machine with the most coverage is Fusion. And the trustees want to link to everyone but The Royal Order of Water Buffalos. But when you talk to folks on the air or at swaps about it, many are shying away from using the machine because they don't want to talk cross country. They just want local chit-chat.

 

[JASII]

@JASII, you've started multiple threads about the relative merits of the various digital voice modes and the equipment available for those modes. I'm not sure what answer you are looking for that you haven't already received...

I apologize for that. I just find it to be a fascinating topic and I continue to learn about it. Right now, I only have an AnyTone AT-D878UV and a hotspot. I am considering buying some more equipment. I hate buyers remorse and want to select the correct digital mode. One thought I have had is to buy a DVMEGA Cast. It works on DMR, D-Star and Fusion. Granted, it isn't exactly the same as having a traditional transceiver for each band, but it would give me a taste of each of the three digital modes.

DVMEGA Cast – DVMEGA

 

[TailGator911]

Here in the Dayton, Ohio area DMR is growing more than any other mode. Not so much the ham repeaters, but business radios. Malls. Security. Hospitals. Schools & buses. City and county government. I just bought the Yaesu FT-60R for its simple, back to basics features because I was not doing much with all of the nodes and modes and features of the FT2DR. There is a DMR ham repeater very close to me in Huber but I have not heard anybody on it any time I dialed it in. Give me 2m and a code and I am a happy camper.

JD
kf4anc

 

[Hit_Factor]

... but it would give me a taste of each of the three digital modes.

There are more than 3 digital modes!

My amateur radio experience has been that there are regional preferences for the modes. In Southwest Michigan to Southern Mid-Michigan DStar is the primary digital mode. Consequently, DStar represents the growth segment.

Detroit area seems to have more Fusion and DMR. Middle LP Michigan has a nice DMR network. The UP doesn't mess with digital if I recall a recent frequency coordination report correctly.

Detroit also has NXDN and P25 repeaters, you don't see many of those.

I don't think DMR is effective for Amatuer Radio unless it's a large area network with very consistent programming, like the CMEN network here in Michigan. I feel that a single DMR repeater serves too narrow of a user base.

Getting into commercial radio, DMR is the way to go in my opinion, if it matches the business needs geographically.

 

[JASII]

There are more than 3 digital modes!...

Yes, there sure are. I should have specified "...each of the three digital modes that the DVMEGA Cast has." It doesn't have APCO P25 or NXDN.