Why do I get better reception with the antenna laying down? Also reception advice requested.

[dragon48]

I recently moved into an apartment building. I changed my profile to edit my location to Boynton Beach Florida.

Quite surprising that the overall reception (F.M. Commercial A.M., Shortwave) here is worse than NYC! I do live in a populated area, but nowhere near as congested as New York City.

Right now, I'm listening to a local F.M. station - 98.7 MHz. The transmitter is 38 miles from my apartment. I'm getting perfect reception with my radio laying down and the antenna extending horizontally, but if I stand the radio up with the antenna pointing up, I get mostly static on the same frequency. I have the same issues with other commercial FM broadcasts and the nearest (162.475) NOAA broadcast, although sometimes, I can't pick up the NOAA station at all.

So, as the title says, Why do I get better reception with the antenna laying down? Also, if this is indicative of a known type of reception issue, are there things I can do to improve reception? As I'm composing this, I just scanned through the entire broadcast A.M. band and didn't pick up anything at all! I've had this problem in office buildings, but never in a residential setting.

Ty

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Specifics on radio, scanner or receiver and antenna being used would help. What floor are you on? Any change if you move the receiver outside?

 

[pitheus]

I am just wondering what type insulation, if foil backed type was used in your buildings construction. I have those new LED lightning fixtures in some rooms of my house and they emit certain freqs that don't play well with them turned on. If you have a balcony and can take the radio outside and it plays normal then it would have to be something inside your apt killing it

 

[jonwienke]

FM broadcast is horizontally polarized, so a horizontal antenna is generally preferred. Communication radio is vertically polarized, so a vertical antenna is generally best, but there can be exceptions due to reflections changing the polarization of reflected waves.

 

[wa8pyr]

I recently moved into an apartment building. I changed my profile to edit my location to Boynton Beach Florida.

Quite surprising that the overall reception (F.M. Commercial A.M., Shortwave) here is worse than NYC! I do live in a populated area, but nowhere near as congested as New York City.

Right now, I'm listening to a local F.M. station - 98.7 MHz. The transmitter is 38 miles from my apartment. I'm getting perfect reception with my radio laying down and the antenna extending horizontally, but if I stand the radio up with the antenna pointing up, I get mostly static on the same frequency. I have the same issues with other commercial FM broadcasts and the nearest (162.475) NOAA broadcast, although sometimes, I can't pick up the NOAA station at all.

So, as the title says, Why do I get better reception with the antenna laying down? Also, if this is indicative of a known type of reception issue, are there things I can do to improve reception? As I'm composing this, I just scanned through the entire broadcast A.M. band and didn't pick up anything at all! I've had this problem in office buildings, but never in a residential setting.

You may be getting reflections from buildings which cause the polarity of the signal to move around. Materials used in the construction of the building you live in may also contribute to the polarity of the received signal to shift.

Many (if not most or all) FM broadcast stations use circular polarization to overcome this; normally this is intended to overcome the effects of driving through the concrete canyons of a large city (like NYC) where the effects of the signal bouncing off things is more pronounced, but it can happen elsewhere so there can be places where your radio will receive better with the antenna in one position compared to another.

 

[jwt873]

FM broadcast is horizontally polarized, so a horizontal antenna is generally preferred. Communication radio is vertically polarized, so a vertical antenna is generally best, but there can be exceptions due to reflections changing the polarization of reflected waves.

The FCC calls for horizontal polarization, but they have a provision allowing broadcasters to use circular or elliptical polarization.

47 CFR § 73.316 - FM antenna systems.

Most broadcasters do this because it adds a vertical component to the signal which is desirable for reception in cars, trucks etc which pretty well all use vertical antennas.

 

[dragon48]

Specifics on radio, scanner or receiver and antenna being used would help. What floor are you on? Any change if you move the receiver outside?

I am just wondering what type insulation, if foil backed type was used in your buildings construction. I have those new LED lightning fixtures in some rooms of my house and they emit certain freqs that don't play well with them turned on. If you have a balcony and can take the radio outside and it plays normal then it would have to be something inside your apt killing it

Having the same issues with a my AOR 8200 MK111 and AOR 3000A, both with stock telescoping antennas. Having the same problem with a radio that starts with the letter 'B." That radio is using a Nagoya NA-771 antenna. Not bringing up the name specifically as just my having the radio tends to anger people.

My balcony faces west. I went outside with the two handhelds and the issue is the same, but there is less static when standing upright. I was able to get some bad but recognizable A.M. reception. I am on the third floor .

I know the general area is fine for FM reception, because as soon as my car exits the enclosed garage, it gets stations perfectly. I'll shut off all the lights later and see it it makes a difference. Not going outside anymore today as there are impending storms, but I'll take one of the handhelds outside tomorrow and report on the reception.

 

[wtp]

with an antenna pointing up, it is omnidirectional.
so you get signals from all directions, which you might normally want.
with the antenna laying down, it is now directional and cuts out some signals.
the 'worst' reception on an antenna is in the direction of the antenna.
so to receive this sentence well, the antenna should be "l" this way, and it would not receive well up and down the page.
and this way '-" for up and down the page.
the word for bad reception off the tip is null.
try spinning the radios for better or worse reception to get the idea.

 

[jonsmth]

I assume you're speaking of WKGR 98.7 licensed to Wellington FL. I looked up their records in the FCC database. This station transmits Horizontal and Vertical polarization. This is is a 100kw FM with a tower 999m HAAT (Height Above Average Terrain). Wellington is in the southern part of their coverage area which puts the tower North of the city of license. The tower is due west of Jupiter Beach FL between US 1 and I-95. Coordinates for the tower are 27.025611 -80.178389. The southern part of their 54dbu coverage reaches just north of Boca Raton, FL. Boynton Beach is well within the coverage. The only other station at 98.7mhz within 70km of you is a low power FM in Miami Beach (W254DV) owned by WRHC Inc. That's only a 250w Low Power Translator that would never reach Boynton Beach. I'm not certain why you're having difficulty picking this station up, but as I spoke before, Boynton Beach is well within the coverage of WKGR.

 

[popnokick]

My money would be on a SEVERE and EXTREME source of RFI in or close to his dwelling unit. Changing the antenna from horizontal to vertical polarization (or vice-versa) is having very little effect on the desired signals he's trying to receive.... but having a MAJOR effect on the source of RFI. In effect, "nulling" out.... or partially nulling... the RFI source, which permits the desired signal to get through a little. Get outside (NOT on your balcony... on the ground) and see if the reception improves / noise decreases as you get away from the building. Yes, you wrote that it does but that was with your car radio. Use the same radio(s) you want to use inside the building. If I'm right, you're looking at A) a major search for the source, and B) figuring out what is going to suppress it (e.g. outdoor antenna, toroid or other filters on the source should you locate it, filtering on the radio(s) using external antenna (not the telescopic whip).

 

[dragon48]

WKGR 98.7

Yes - I am indeed listening to WKGR 98.7. I have the same issue with worse reception picking up 105.9 - WBGG. Haven't taken the time to look up the transmitter location, but I'm certain it's farther away as it is a Miami based station. Perfect reception in my car in the neighborhood.

I'll try my portables outside and away from the buildings tomorrow afternoon and report back.

 

[jonsmth]

WBGG is licensed to Ft Lauderdale but their tower is near Hollywood FL. Like WKGR they are a 100kw FM with a 300m tower. I'm not sure of what the construction of your apartment is, but I know many buildings along the coast of Florida are concrete, which is good for handling Hurricanes but contains a ton of steel rebar. If that is your case, it would be like having your radio in an RF proof cage! Just something to think about.

 

[Ubbe]

Yeah, interferencies are blocking reception making it loosing sensitivity. When reducing the general RF level entering the receiver it stops the blocking and it starts to receive again. You can probably just touch the antenna with you fingers at different points and you will reduce the signal even when the antenna are standing up vertically.

/Ubbe

 

[dragon48]

I haven't troubleshot much since my last post, but did notice something that may be helpful. In my apartment, I get perfect reception on 107.9 (WEAT-FM) WFM. I also pick up 107.9 near perfectly in the parking garage while driving. The transmitter is approximately 27 miles Northwest of me. With a little testing, it looks like the higher frequencies are easier to pick up, both while driving and while in my apartment. When driving, as soon as I enter the parking garage that's connected to my building, I lose 105.9 (WBGG-FM - 42 miles due south of me) completely, as well as every other FM radio station lower on the dial. In the parking garage, I get some reception on 107.5 (WAMR-FM -45 miles due south of me). Also, In the parking garage, I get some, but less reception than 107.5 on 107.1 (YO! 107.1 West Palm Beach - West Palm beach station, so probably not transmitted more than 30 miles away. I can't find info on the call sign or tower location.) Both 107.5 and 107.1 are hit and miss in my apartment, but like the garage, 107.5 comes in better than 107.1 when I can get it.

Are my findings random, or is it possible that whatever interference exists in my apartment and parking garage affects the lower frequencies more than the higher ones? If so, is the cause simply building materials? My building is new and constructed to withstand hurricanes.

Ty