Why id they have to upset the apple cart and go to DMA over the long established 'channel banks'?

[videobruce]

Simple question;
It wasn't broke for what, 40+ years, just why the change? Other then with trunked systems, memory is memory? Right? Can't both exist in the same radio?
I wish I had a dollar for every guy that has returned these 'new and improved' (supposedly) radios due to all of this complexity. It's bad enough all ,of this 'digital complexity', but add of this programming nightmare, it surely takes the fun out of the hobby.

 

[GTR8000]

DMA has been around for 17 years at this point. It's not really all that complicated, I'm not sure why you seem to be having such a tough time programming one EDACS system. Perhaps you're not following the directions you're being given in other threads.

 

[videobruce]

Windows registry is easier to navigate.

 

[ProScan]

Windows registry is easier to navigate.

Once you get the hang of DMA, you will find it much easier. DMA hierarchy is like this

System (Conventional)
- Group
- - Channels - Conventional frequencies
System (Trunking)
- Group
- - Channels - TGIDs
- Site
- - Channels - Trunking frequencies

 

[videobruce]

Too many acronyms.

 

[ProScan]

Too many acronyms.

This link should help

Dynamic Memory Architecture - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

 

[SteveSimpkin]

Why does this have to be so complicated?
Because radio systems became so complicated. Here's more information written by UPMan himself (RIP Paul).

https://wiki.radioreference.com/images/c/c7/Trunking_description.pdf

 

[a417]

Too many acronyms.

literally one.

 

[merlin]

I see where you are coming from, I was away from radio a decade engrossed in aerospace and satellite comms.
Dos radio service software was the thing, trunking and digital was new. Now I am retired and getting back into it.
So much change, didn't know where to start. Radios are much the same, just some added DSP hardware.
The complexity is instead of 16K memory, now is 8Mb or more. Instead of channel freqs an CG, now all the flavors of trunking and 10 new protocols, each with dozens of settings, modes and decoders.
Once you get the gist, you find 90% of that doesn't matter and what's left isn't complicated to say, program a system into a radio or scanner. Yea, lots of settings and a plan of what you want really helps. it is a learning curve.
ProScan's hierarchy isn't complicated even adding digital, then as many systems>>groups>>and channels you want.
Groups: Each talk group needs an identification (TGID) Those acronyms I don't try to remember, I printed them, but the more you use them, they become old hat.

 

[videobruce]

I see where you are coming from

At least someone does.
Almost anything can be easy IF one can remember all, or at least some of it. Some can't.

 

[w2lie]

I can see where you might be confused if you are trying to program your software via the keypad, but as others have stated, it isn't all that confusing once you get the hang of it.

My suggestions are as follows:

1. Invest in Software. Programming with a computer will instantly allow you to see how the programming is going into your computer. If you feel that modifying window's registry is easy, then seeing the same type of tree on the left side window with the values on the right should make you feel right at home on any programming software.

2. Map out your programming on paper. Figure out what systems you want to monitor and how you want to group them together

3. Use software + Radio Reference's premium features to see how the radio can be programmed and then use that as a baseline to edit or create your own scan lists.


DMA was a head scratcher when it first came out. I have to be honest, I like Whistler's memory management better (enter it once, define it to as many lists as you want), but in the end, the old school hard coded memories per banks was no longer sustainable or a good use of memory. You'd constantly be too short on memory per bank or have too many wasted locations.

Another benefit to DMA programming is that you can have multiple sites per system and multiple systems (and types) per scan list.

Hang in there. It might take you time to understand how DMA works, but once you see why it was created you will learn to appreciate it.

 

[wtp]

i just think of the radio as a computer systems=folders.
i don't do any quick keys, with about 120 systems it would be harder to remember who is where.
i just scroll to the system/s that i want and unlock them.

 

[freqseeker]

Simply put banks were a waste of memory. When memory was limited to 100 channels you had 10 banks of 10 channels. If your local PD had 6 channels, 4 of bank 1 were left unused. Local FD had 2 channels, 8 were left unused unless you filled them with other stuff which took away the convenience of turning agencies on and off by bank.
It was even more wasteful when memory channels jumped to 400, you had 10 banks of 40 channels.
With DMA one channel can be assigned a quick key (virtual bank). A big city with 50 channels can be a quick key or separated into multiple quick keys.

It took some time to adapt to DMA, and I was frustrated too. It now makes perfect sense. Paul was a genius doing DMA.
This is a very basic idea of why DMA is better. Evolution can be a good thing.

 

[videobruce]

i don't do any quick keys, with about 120 systems it would be harder to remember who is where.
i just scroll to the system/s that i want and unlock them.

This deal with the quick keys & group keys is confusing as I've gotten it both ways; assign & don't assign.

freqseeker;
Never looked at it that way, but with my Pro2004 and now 2006, I never considered any of the unused channels a waste. I couldn't really fill them up anyway if I had to. And the 2004 I modified with 400 additional channels via an additional memory chip partly courtesy of Bill Cheek after I made the suggestion to him; Stacking chips via the CE pin and a toggle switch.

 

[w2lie]

That is something you'll have to figure out on your own.
If I am programming a scanner and I have 10 SQK's or less, I'll assign them.
If I have a lot of systems, sometimes I'll make a matrix up in excel and tape it to the top of the scanner.

Most times thought, like the HP style scanners, I won't assign the SQK's and I'll just enable/disable using the menu system.

 

[N9JIG]

Freqseeker hits it out of the park, DMA is much more efficient but it certainly can be confusing.

The way I explain it to others is that with the old Banks and Channels programming you were limited in the amount of trunked systems to the number of banks available (usually 10 or 20). While you could usually back fill some of the unused channels with conventional channels it really was not a practical solution for the current realities, especially in urban areas with many trunked systems.

DMA offers effectively unlimited amount of Systems, Groups and Channels, it is all but inconceivable that one would fill all the available slots. Yes, it really does require a new way of thinking but that goes with the territory.

If you are in an area that does not use trunking then an older style Banks and Channels type scanner is more practical but these days even rural areas are moving to trunking and DMA starts making more sense.

 

[N9JIG]

This deal with the quick keys & group keys is confusing as I've gotten it both ways; assign & don't assign.

On this I agree! I despise and do not use Quick Keys or Group Keys in my programming, I just go into the Menu, select "Set Scan Selection" then "Select Lists to Monitor" to turn on and off the various Systems (Favorites Lists) I want to listen to.

Quick Keys are great for those who like them and can remember what Quick Key goes to what, but for me it is far easier to go to the Menu system since I do not change that very often.

 

[mc48]

You don't need to remember that many Q-Keys, you can simply split things up into smaller groups with them, and then scroll once you narrow it down into the smaller groups. Think of these groups as a priority list and number them accordingly.

 

[videobruce]

I just go into the Menu, select "Set Scan Selection" then "Select Lists to Monitor" to turn on and off the various Systems (Favorites Lists) I want to listen to.

Is this in the scanner menu or using software as I don't remember seeing anything in either 996P2 manual.?

 

[videobruce]

In the "Nothing to Scan" WiKi, one of the causes was no SQK's and/or GQK's enabled when I encountered that problem.