Why is analog used more west of the rockies?...

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Pr999

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...And why did the departments on the east not keep theirs or use them as frequently? This goes for statewide trunking systems.
 

bob550

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It's all got something to do with the Law of Longitudes. Or maybe it's about the lower average relative humidity in Western States. Or perhaps we can blame the Mountain and Pacific time zones. We'll come up with something.
 

AJAT

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It's all got something to do with the Law of Longitudes. Or maybe it's about the lower average relative humidity in Western States. Or perhaps we can blame the Mountain and Pacific time zones. We'll come up with something.
It is much simpler then that. Digital signals travel easterly, hence bounce off the Rockies. This causes an echo effect. To stop this you need special filters that can be expensive so most agency stay analog. This phenomenon is known as rocky bounce. 😀
 

Pr999

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It is much simpler then that. Digital signals travel easterly, hence bounce off the Rockies. This causes an echo effect. To stop this you need special filters that can be expensive so most agency stay analog. This phenomenon is known as rocky bounce. 😀
That leads me to another question: why does data transmit differently from regular analog voice even though they use the same method of transmission?
 
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RFI-EMI-GUY

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That leads me to another question: why does data transmit differently from regular analog voice even though they use the same system of transmit?
I assume you are asking about "mixed mode" where a repeater has an analog audio path as well as a digital audio path. The methodology is very different. But they can share RF components like the receiver and transmitter, duplexer and antenna. The receiver demodulators are different as are the transmit modulators.
 

AJAT

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That leads me to another question: why does data transmit differently from regular analog voice even though they use the same system of transmit?
I was joking in my response. Trying to have a little fun. Honestly I never realized there was much more analog west of Rockies and really have no idea. Maybe just coincidental.
 

Pr999

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I assume you are asking about "mixed mode" where a repeater has an analog audio path as well as a digital audio path. The methodology is very different. But they can share RF components like the receiver and transmitter, duplexer and antenna.
I didn't mean an actual system, I meant method. And to throw in there; I'm talking about handheld to handheld or mobile to mobile, repeaters are different.
 

Pr999

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I was joking in my response. Trying to have a little fun. Honestly I never realized there was much more analog west of Rockies and really have no idea. Maybe just coincidental.
Well funny enough, it lead me to an even better question.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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I didn't mean an actual system, I meant method. And to throw in there; I'm talking about handheld to handheld or mobile to mobile, repeaters are different.
The answer would be the same , the modulation and demodulation differs and the audio processing differs.
 

David628

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Taking a wild stab at this here. This could apply everywhere in the US.

Political related: city counsel politicians not seeing a need to make a change.

End user related (Fire, EMS, PD etc): The system seems to work just fine for their intended usage, possibly cheaper radio equipment.

Budget/political related: Maybe the theory of "if it works why waste tax payer dollars on an upgrade".

Social & community related issues: such as a city never having any issues which would fuel a necessitated change to digital such as intentional interference, wackers showing up to scenes, instances of protesters using scanners and apps to track riot police movements to avoid arrest during protests etc.
 

mmckenna

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Things are a lot more spread out in the west. We have counties in the west that are the size of entire states in the east. Less population density means less people to pay the bills. Building out a shiny new digital radio system when there isn't money to do that is a challenge. Eventually it'll happen, but not quickly.
 

12dbsinad

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Because in most cases there is nothing wrong with analog. You get superior audio quality within it's designed coverage area, way better than any modern digital system. Nothing wrong with that. Think about the fire service for example, many use a fancy shiny new digital system but then switch to analog to actually fight the fire, as recommended by the NFPA. Why do you think that is? Think about that for a minute. It's like buying a brand new fire engine for the crew to respond in but someone has to bring the old engine to actually pump the water. The 2 way industry is very weird.
 

Pr999

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I don't think it ultimately has anything to do with population because all these states still have and most definitely use P25 systems, but they mostly still stick to analog like California for instants, they're still using low band for highway patrol even though almost every statewide agency has abandoned it. I just want to know why most of the west still uses these old analog systems, I mean I'm not against it or anything, definitely makes it easier to listen to, but I wonder why. Michigan is almost completely digital, not must analog conventional and/or trunked is used, even for businesses, and Michigan seems on par with Cali, politically, socially, and economically (at least for the cost of living) so why doesn't more of the east take advantage of a more functional system. I mean these are just my opinions, but I'd like to see the east adopt it more.
 

mmckenna

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I don't think it ultimately has anything to do with population because all these states still have and most definitely use P25 systems, but they mostly still stick to analog like California for instants, they're still using low band for highway patrol even though almost every statewide agency has abandoned it.

I've lived in California most of my life, and I've been through just about every corner of northern and central California and quite a bit of Southern California. For those that don't live in the state, don't travel through it frequently, base their image of the state off what they see on TV, or a brief visit to LA or SF, there isn't any good way for them to understand how varied the topology is. It's way different than what most think.

Low band works well since it travels well in rugged terrain. And there's a lot of rugged terrain in the state. It also covers a lot more distance than VHF or higher frequencies. Low band was the most economical way to get coverage for the CHP as well as CalTrans.

There really isn't much in the way of digital low band gear. There's a few very niche products, but none that really caught on. The CHP system was built out a long time ago, and it was all analog. Still is.

The state is building out a very complex P25 trunked system that uses a mix of 700/800MHz as well as VHF. It's still in the early stages, but it's growing fast. The plan is for CHP to migrate to that in the future. Problem is, the statewide trunked system will never cover everything, it's just not economical.

So, yes, it does have a lot to do with population. California is a very populous state, but there's a huge amount of land to cover, and the challenges of covering would take a LOT of money. There just isn't enough money to make the system cover 100%, and not enough taxpayers to fund it. Likely, the analog low band system will stick around for the foreseeable future. There's a lot of places where it's the only option. Even then, low band doesn't cover everything.
 

Wilrobnson

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Social & community related issues: such as a city never having any issues which would fuel a necessitated change to digital such as intentional interference, wackers showing up to scenes, instances of protesters using scanners and apps to track riot police movements to avoid arrest during protests etc.
Someone wasn't in Seattle during 2020...Half of Twitter live-tweeting literally, word-for-word, everything on SPD and SFD talkgroups....Interfering with SFD EMS/attacking firefighters...Using quikcrete to try and cement shut an SPD precinct while setting fire to it. I got a bottle broken over my head while doing CPR on an Antifa member who had just been shot by another Antifa member, because F the Police!

Heck, there's a county-owner 800 phase-2 system in Washington State that encrypted all of the LE comms and even flirted with encrypting their control channel after Cartel members tracked LE personnel by their RIDs and set up a (failed) ambush.
 
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